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Relationship Failing Relationship With My Ptsd/bordeline Gf
- Post starter AzorAhai77
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@AzorAhai77 what part of the united state are you in? If you are in Mass. There seems to be an enclave of good trauma specialists.
@Chava are you free of that control freak woman? Congratulations if you are.
@Chava are you free of that control freak woman? Congratulations if you are.
And what happens if she has an epileptic attack while the belt is on her neck?
This to me is very black/white thinking. You may want to research this here. There are also many posts that speak about blue/not blue. You may find some insight into what you are up against with this. I think the issue here for you is to research so that you are not taking it 'on'. This is about her distortions imho, not so much yours.
Best of luck to you Azor
- Post starter
- #17
AzorAhai77
New Here
UPDATE: Okay, last night we drove to see her therapist. I sat in as a guest to see if something can be done about this relationship. To say the least, she was quite angry with me for standing my ground and telling her I have my needs as well, and we both need to work on giving each other what we want if this is to work out. She still feels like she can't give me what I need unless I prove to her I deserve it by me giving her what she needs. She admitted to the therapist she hasn't been giving her all in this relationship while I have. The therapist told her she has to be willing to give her all if this is ever going to work. The therapist didn't seem too knowledgeable about PTSD and how a relationship can work between sufferer and supporter. The best I got from him was that my gf has a need, which is to be listened to. I also have a need, which is for her to work on her stress management so I can be respected by her and don't feel like the victim that can't do anything right when it comes to her. The session turned sour near the end as she started to not reply to the therapist. I mentioned the drama triangle to the therapist; he seems disinterested in it. My gf was so mad at this point she didn't even bother hearing what I had to say about it. We walked out feeling not much better than we did before. Well, at least now she knows that I'm not going to play "rescuer" to her "victim" anymore. She's going to need to step up with me if she still wants to make this work.
I learned a lot by researching the drama triangle. It seems like she goes back and forth between persecutor and victim while I go back and forth between rescuer and victim. From here on out, I'm going to try to wean myself off the triangle. This might mean the end of this relationship, but I have to be respected as her equal despite how she feels about not willing to give me what I need until she gets what she needs.
@darrenS I totally hear you. She can't see that what she wants is out of reach. The therapy session didn't turn out to be of much help, so you were right in that regard as she still feels like I don't understand that I need to listen to her. In other words, she still has trust issues with me. I think moving out after she greatly disrespected me was my effort to put some healthy distance between us. She didn't want it, but it was all I could do at the moment to deal with the way she made me feel, which was not wanting to be around her at all at that moment. Thanks for the advice and all the support.
@Anarchy You're right. I made her aware of my own needs but she insists I'm to blame because I was the one that started to make her feel like she is being ignored. I looked up the drama triangle and, boy, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I live in Michigan, btw.
@shimmerz Sadly, it might be her insurance which is not allowing her to make more visits. Also, she refuses to talk to her therapists about important topics like suicide, so she even has control over her therapist in that respect.
It seems like she would welcome an epileptic attack while the belt is on her neck. There's never not enough talk about her thinking how wonderful it would be to just leave this earth and end all the pain she's endured during her lifetime. I wish she would speak to her therapist about her suicide. Black/white thinking is a borderline trait I noticed about her from the very beginning. Everything is either all good or all bad with her. Correct, or very very wrong. I don't know what she thinks like this unless it's a symptom of borderline tendencies.
@Chava Once a month is definitely not enough. It must be her insurance because after last night, she scheduled her next appointment to every other month, which is alarming. I've offered to help her, financially, with driving to see her therapist more often, but she has to make the decision to do so. She's always telling me she's a scientist, therefore she knows what she knows and knows what she doesn't. If only she could realize that we both need to give each other what we want to make this work. She's still on the "me first, then you.." bandwagon.
I learned a lot by researching the drama triangle. It seems like she goes back and forth between persecutor and victim while I go back and forth between rescuer and victim. From here on out, I'm going to try to wean myself off the triangle. This might mean the end of this relationship, but I have to be respected as her equal despite how she feels about not willing to give me what I need until she gets what she needs.
@darrenS I totally hear you. She can't see that what she wants is out of reach. The therapy session didn't turn out to be of much help, so you were right in that regard as she still feels like I don't understand that I need to listen to her. In other words, she still has trust issues with me. I think moving out after she greatly disrespected me was my effort to put some healthy distance between us. She didn't want it, but it was all I could do at the moment to deal with the way she made me feel, which was not wanting to be around her at all at that moment. Thanks for the advice and all the support.
@Anarchy You're right. I made her aware of my own needs but she insists I'm to blame because I was the one that started to make her feel like she is being ignored. I looked up the drama triangle and, boy, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I live in Michigan, btw.
@shimmerz Sadly, it might be her insurance which is not allowing her to make more visits. Also, she refuses to talk to her therapists about important topics like suicide, so she even has control over her therapist in that respect.
It seems like she would welcome an epileptic attack while the belt is on her neck. There's never not enough talk about her thinking how wonderful it would be to just leave this earth and end all the pain she's endured during her lifetime. I wish she would speak to her therapist about her suicide. Black/white thinking is a borderline trait I noticed about her from the very beginning. Everything is either all good or all bad with her. Correct, or very very wrong. I don't know what she thinks like this unless it's a symptom of borderline tendencies.
@Chava Once a month is definitely not enough. It must be her insurance because after last night, she scheduled her next appointment to every other month, which is alarming. I've offered to help her, financially, with driving to see her therapist more often, but she has to make the decision to do so. She's always telling me she's a scientist, therefore she knows what she knows and knows what she doesn't. If only she could realize that we both need to give each other what we want to make this work. She's still on the "me first, then you.." bandwagon.
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Dysfunctional
Dysfunctional
Team counseling might only make sense if the therapist is well versed in BPD and/or PTSD.
For now I'd say she needs more regular therapy with someone who understands both BPD and PTSD. But if I had to pick on specialist, I'd say BPD right now. Is there a DBT skills group in the area? That helped one of my friends (along with therapy).
It's wonderful that you care. The more you research Borderline Personality Disorder and PTSD, the more you will understand where you fit. You can support her, but be cautious not to enable her or let her blame you for her suffering. Stay cool. Direct it back at her behaviors if possible (might not be). Tell her you care and that means wanting to understand the disorder better and seeing her through appropriate treatment.
I know healthy borderlines can be brilliant and lots of fun. I'm surprised I wasn't diagnosed borderline in my early 20s (my approach to relationships was total avoidance, but I had all the impulsivity and self destruction.....most of it I grew out of or shed through therapy. Mainly, I'm struggle with what we call complex trauma. But because of past relationships, I understand borderline pretty well. They do well with structure. And even if she hates you for having your own boundaries, it is GOOD for her. Your ability to have needs and have boundaries with her, in a subtle way teaches her about normal boundaries, which she struggles with. The more you can be "normal" and hold to "normal boundaries" vs be sucked down by her blaming, the more good you do yourself and your friend. But please nudge her into better treatment., maybe even partial hospitalization or a day program if her behaviors are threatening self destruction.
Best wishes....I mean it....I can tell you care, and that is beautiful....but be your strong self and don't sink to meet her every unrealistic need. Be strong in having your own boundaries.
joeylittle
Sponsor
I just can't agree with this enough. Borderline is an oft-maligned diagnosis, and it isn't always well understood, but the extreme, to the point of dangerous, expression of her emotional state and needs - it doesn't go away on its own, and she won't be able to change much of it without getting some solid DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy, the protocol that was developed by a person with Borderline for Borderlines. It has broader uses now - but it's still the gold standard for BPD treatment).
Please, just keep remembering the first part of this statement - no, you can't take the burden of being blamed for everything - and keep being as honest with yourself about your own feelings as you have been. You clearly do love her, very much. Keep watching for 'breaks' in the symptoms, times when she is able to listen without reacting - and keep encouraging that she give herself the support she needs by investing some time in some deeper therapy. Look for centers that offer 'classic' DBT, or DBT in the Linehan style. It's generally a six month stretch of three things - weekly individual therapy, weekly group therapy, and 24 hour access to one of the therapists you work with. It's highly structured. It's not going to deal with her PTSD at all, but right now, she seems to be much, much more symptomatic for BPD. Also, even doing an intake at such a place, they will really be able to provide clarity on her diagnoses and how they interact.
There are also some great inpatient programs in Michigan, as I recall.
Don't give up hope, if hope is what you want to have - and don't get burned out, either. You might think about therapy for yourself, to have some external support.
Poor gal, PTSD is a bitch to have and BPD is a bitch to...well, be. I can't imagine being both involuntarily triggered but then having voluntary maladaptive behavior that tends to characterize BPD...like "which things are out of my control and which things am I just convinced are out of my control because they're ingrained and embedded through habit"? For you, you can neither fix her triggers nor show her the light on her BPD-shaped behavior, though she definitely heaps the pain on you. Set boundaries. Leave if you feel it's right. Give support but make it clear that you are not responsible for her being triggered but you will help her in whatever way. If you leave or set serious boundaries, she may get drastic but you have to be firm. If she wants to self-harm, report it to make sure she is ok, but it is without the crutches or brace that people learn to walk or function on their own. Rage and manipulation cannot be quelled by you.
@AzorAhai77 further to what @joeylittle wrote,
Marsha Linehan, the developer of DBT, originally made no mention of BPD, the treatment was developed for chronically suicidal people - however chronic suicidality and BPD tend to go together (and as joey wrote, I gather that Marsha Linehan lives with both herself).
The therapy would normally be conducted by a therapy team - as the clients and their problems tend to burn out lone therapists!
Best wishes
@
Marsha Linehan, the developer of DBT, originally made no mention of BPD, the treatment was developed for chronically suicidal people - however chronic suicidality and BPD tend to go together (and as joey wrote, I gather that Marsha Linehan lives with both herself).
The therapy would normally be conducted by a therapy team - as the clients and their problems tend to burn out lone therapists!
Best wishes
@
- Post starter
- #22
AzorAhai77
New Here
@Chava Today, I've reached out to a therapist whom is well versed in PTSD, BPD and DBT skills. Hopefully everything will check out and she can get the therapy she needs to get better.
The person she used to be was so addicting to be around. Sadly, she has become someone much different and says I will never see that side of her until I prove to her I deserve it, all the while failing to accept responsibility for her wrong-doings in this relationship and neglecting my own needs in the process. I have gotten numerous nasty texts from her last night and this morning of her telling me all her ex-boyfriend's she still talks to claim they have never found anyone like her and how I will regret leaving her. She also mentioned how I can be easily replaced and how easy I've made it for her to do so.
@joeylittle DBT is the goal. The therapist I reached out to today is well versed in it and I'm hoping it's the option he goes with for her. Man, it is so hard to get her to see that I really care about her. She's always saying "If you cared, you would do..." and while she's within her right to have standards, she doesn't understand that there are many ways to show that I care and she acknowledges only the ones that she thinks matters to her, which is narrow-minded to me.
@meltot Thanks for chiming in. I've set boundaries and have been sticking to them. Since I have, we've been at a stalemate. I've moved out (with the intention of moving back in if the situation improves) to create some healthy distance between us, and she hates it because she really wants me to be there, but she has disrespected me in ways I've never though possible and to the point that I feel unhealthy around her. This distance has slowly helped me to warm back up to her, but she feels like this is a weak effort to fix things when in actuality, it is the best effort I can give as I recover from the way she's made me feel.
@Anarchy I haven't heard her talk much about suicide these past few days. She seems more content with leaving me/getting me to stay than killing herself right now but I'm convinced DBT could help her with both her BPD and thoughts of suicide. If I had to say, a team would be preferable for her because she will definitely burn out therapists one-on-one!
Maybe someone could shed some light on this, but in the beginning we were both fine. Then she started claiming that I wasn't paying attention to her enough and warned me that she wasn't feeling good because of it. I put in more effort to pay attention and it would still happen because she requires so much attention, there's always the chance I could make the mistake of not doing something right. And when I did, not only did I know, she quickly became critical, criticizing, causing humiliation, exaggerating my flaws (listening) and verbally abusing me for my mistakes. Not once did I ever get any positive reinforcement or constructive criticism, just warnings that she would get worse. She feels like since I'm the one who made the first mistake of not listening to her, she's within her right to treat me bad because I made her feel bad (and loves to use the excuse "every action has a reaction"). I've taken full responsibility for my mistakes, which are times when I should have been paying attention but for some reason didn't, and have since been dedicated to improvement by limiting the amount of times this happens for her. She hasn't taken responsibility for treating me bad. She keeps saying "hurting people hurt people". She still wants me to prove to her that I deserve her good side while she gives me absolutely nothing other than a chance to give my all while she gives nothing. Based on the fact we both are at fault in this relationship, I believe we both need to take responsibility, regroup and recommit to this relationship. Is she right to think since I was the first one to make her feel bad everything rides on me? The thought seems selfish, but she's extremely manipulative and I wanted to know if anyone here can see where she's coming from.
The person she used to be was so addicting to be around. Sadly, she has become someone much different and says I will never see that side of her until I prove to her I deserve it, all the while failing to accept responsibility for her wrong-doings in this relationship and neglecting my own needs in the process. I have gotten numerous nasty texts from her last night and this morning of her telling me all her ex-boyfriend's she still talks to claim they have never found anyone like her and how I will regret leaving her. She also mentioned how I can be easily replaced and how easy I've made it for her to do so.
@joeylittle DBT is the goal. The therapist I reached out to today is well versed in it and I'm hoping it's the option he goes with for her. Man, it is so hard to get her to see that I really care about her. She's always saying "If you cared, you would do..." and while she's within her right to have standards, she doesn't understand that there are many ways to show that I care and she acknowledges only the ones that she thinks matters to her, which is narrow-minded to me.
@meltot Thanks for chiming in. I've set boundaries and have been sticking to them. Since I have, we've been at a stalemate. I've moved out (with the intention of moving back in if the situation improves) to create some healthy distance between us, and she hates it because she really wants me to be there, but she has disrespected me in ways I've never though possible and to the point that I feel unhealthy around her. This distance has slowly helped me to warm back up to her, but she feels like this is a weak effort to fix things when in actuality, it is the best effort I can give as I recover from the way she's made me feel.
@Anarchy I haven't heard her talk much about suicide these past few days. She seems more content with leaving me/getting me to stay than killing herself right now but I'm convinced DBT could help her with both her BPD and thoughts of suicide. If I had to say, a team would be preferable for her because she will definitely burn out therapists one-on-one!
Maybe someone could shed some light on this, but in the beginning we were both fine. Then she started claiming that I wasn't paying attention to her enough and warned me that she wasn't feeling good because of it. I put in more effort to pay attention and it would still happen because she requires so much attention, there's always the chance I could make the mistake of not doing something right. And when I did, not only did I know, she quickly became critical, criticizing, causing humiliation, exaggerating my flaws (listening) and verbally abusing me for my mistakes. Not once did I ever get any positive reinforcement or constructive criticism, just warnings that she would get worse. She feels like since I'm the one who made the first mistake of not listening to her, she's within her right to treat me bad because I made her feel bad (and loves to use the excuse "every action has a reaction"). I've taken full responsibility for my mistakes, which are times when I should have been paying attention but for some reason didn't, and have since been dedicated to improvement by limiting the amount of times this happens for her. She hasn't taken responsibility for treating me bad. She keeps saying "hurting people hurt people". She still wants me to prove to her that I deserve her good side while she gives me absolutely nothing other than a chance to give my all while she gives nothing. Based on the fact we both are at fault in this relationship, I believe we both need to take responsibility, regroup and recommit to this relationship. Is she right to think since I was the first one to make her feel bad everything rides on me? The thought seems selfish, but she's extremely manipulative and I wanted to know if anyone here can see where she's coming from.
Pssssh. Let her go. Maybe say a prayer for her, because I know you care, and let her go.
This sounds like total bullshit. But I wouldn't call her on it because really, ultimately, it makes me sad. She is doing desperate stuff and still trying to manipulate you. She is pulling out all the stops, using all her tricks.
I wouldn't believe a word of that anyway, but Hallelujah!! YOU deserve better... Please know that. Know that it's okay to have feelings and care for her, but it sounds like time to move on and find a relationship that works both ways a little better. You deserve that!!!! I do not know you, but based on your stuff here, we know you are caring. I have no doubt you deserve care and respect back.
joeylittle
Sponsor
That's borderline flaring up. It's hard to sometimes get one's head around the fact that it's not actually what the person thinks, so much as they have such a pathological insecurity that they act out in order to provoke response.
Nope. She has an illness, that's all.
I think that's only because it had not been named yet (Borderline, that is). But definitely, she was thinking about her own chronic suicidality and self-harm, which is what led her to believe that she would have been diagnosed borderline when she was institutionalized, if they had invented the diagnosis. I just think she's really brave for coming out eventually.
Anyway, this is the really awesome article where she talks about it. Expert on Mental Illness Reveals Her Own Fight. @AzorAhai77, you might really find it informative. I bet your girlfriend would, too.
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