News A Plan For A Segment Of Activists To Exploit Vets With Ptsd?

[The Albatross]

I have been following the Dakota Access Pipeline situation (Standing Rock) for quite a while now. But this thread isn't really about the reason for the protest itself - it is the idea that activists would seek to exploit, arm and intentionally try to trigger to violence someone (military veteran or otherwise) with PTSD. That is worthy, I think, of a discussion.

It is not the purpose of the topic to bang on the largely peaceful protest underway. Here is the full press conference, below the link is the video time marks where a credible plan to exploit veterans is mentioned.

Morton County North Dakota December 3 Press Conference: News Conference December 3, 2016
The plan to exploit veterans is mentioned at 6:04 and 29:05.

 

[Silver.]

"Oh, 2k vets are planned to come out and help, how can we exploit that situation in our favour?"
Sorry, but that department is not to be trusted

 

[The Albatross]

The press conference is not the only reports of a segment of activists, in this case at the Dakota Access Pipeline - there have been other reports (I am a veteran and am on other veteran sites) of attempts at exploitation so I see this as both a PTSD and also veteran issue. I just gave the conference as was given by law enforcement. Like I said I've been following this for a while. To me it was an unedited press conference which is why I used it.

The main issue which I was interested in discussing are either the ethical implications of exploiting people with PTSD by attempting to use them to incite violence.... OR even "IF" someone with PTSD could be triggered into violent acts by activist groups.

Added in edit: Since I'm the Opening Poster, I would ask that people who want turn this into a pro/con Dakota Access Pipeline or pro/con law enforcement refrain from commenting.

 

[Ronin]

The way it's phrased concerns me.

Not identifying the source of that intel at all. I understand it's quite an upsetting idea but I'm wondering who is coming up with the message to begin with, or if it's tossed around just to upset the present veterans & law enforcement.

What I've seen on the other side of the issue / activist webs is urging very strongly peaceful and lawful behavior, only.

So I'm wondering who is it that's planning violence, and who's feeding the police that information about them, and what their agenda is. I'm wondering about that message & sender of it as it seems rather non-descript. So, sources besides the video if available would be grand. I'm not sure there's much discussion to be had about so very rumor-like an information.

 

[The Albatross]

Let's just say from left wing to right wing, there have been advocacy groups not only encouraging veteran participation but writing literature about how to recruit those. The most public though comment since an NBC Article in November 2015 I'd seen on it was the one I shared.

Not left or right but I saw recently a History channel segment about gangs and bikers and a trend to recruit veterans. It gave me pause to think.

However inciting to violence and the suggestion in the segment I shared about potentially "triggering" PTSD vets... well I still think that's worthy of a discussion. COULD it, we being a broad spectrum of PTSD's really happen... and why are fringe groups writing literature about how to recruit and use veterans?

I would think, that exploitation, if substantively uncovered of PTSDs and/or veterans in activism for any cause is worth a discussion. Like I said. Ethically at least, this would merit a discussion.

 

[Ronin]

that exploitation, if substantively uncovered of PTSDs and/or veterans in activism for any cause is worth a discussion.

Totally and I apologize if the tone of my reply seemed trying to shoot the discussion down; that wasn't my intention. I mostly got concerned with the specifics of this concrete issue & video presented, not aiming to comment on the topic you've opened as a whole, much less not talk about it.

 

[scout86]

I think anybody who doesn't have a moral objection to exploiting others can do it, regardless of their politics. In this particular case, the only people I've heard raising the specter of 'dangerous vets with PTSD' was law enforcement. In this particular case, I'm not so sure 'law enforcement' isn't the bunch trying to do the exploiting.

I don't know...... Some people with PTSD can be violent some times. And some of the violence, or lack of ability to control it, is related to having PTSD. That's a hard thing to face. It's probably more popular to not face it at all. Doesn't mean it's true of everyone. Doesn't mean it's true all the time. It's not even true of all combat vets, much less all of the time. But sometimes it's true. At least I think it is. I think the whole idea is over done in the media. Although it doesn't help when someone goes off the deep end and lives up the the stereotype, which happens.

In the case in question, it's possible that there are people within the protest movement who want to incite violence and who were thinking that setting up a bunch of combat vets was a way to get things rolling. It's also possible that law enforcement was looking for an excuse to bust heads and was setting this idea up as a ready excuse. It's also possible everyone on each side was totally honest and sincere in where they were coming from. From the outside, I'm not sure we can know. I DO think there are people and groups out there who are ready and willing to exploit anyone they find useful to accomplish their goals. I'm not sure what you can do, other than the best you can to read people's motives. (Yeah, like THAT'S ever going to work!)

 

[Anarchy]

It could be coming from any direction
Protests are very convenient vehicles for other interests to hijack
Some are rather sad eg trotskyites and followers of Gorges Sorel's writings. They're few and far between.

Some are well meaning, for example trying to get some media coverage

Others are nefarious, for example the British cop who spent several years facilitating green activists, and the plainclothes cops spotted trying to cause trouble in marches against police brutality.

And then there's the plain mercenary incentive - who's ever encountered a police chief that didn't want a bigger budget, more toys, and more people interested in cos play?

 

[The Albatross]

Personally, I don't think that a group of any stripe without cultish or indoctrination techniques would be able to "trigger" me into fight mode. Most probably not even then. However I do find it disconcerting to think that for a cause, some group members might endeavor to try and/or that fringe activist groups write literature about how to recruit and perhaps exploit vets to further a cause.

What evidence is there (if any) that someone can intentionally trigger a PTSD anyways? Is there any?

 

[Freedomfighter]

I have been following the Dakota Access Pipeline situation (Standing Rock) for quite a while now....

I find this very interesting too, and yes there are people who will try to trigger PTSD victims, low lives they are.

 

[Anarchy]

Alby,
Best not look for the evidence
What evidence there is consists of people being hideously abused. I'm not aware of any "successes" in terms of Manchurian candidates.

 

[LClarke]

I'm involved with a number of hard-left groups and have a few acquaintances active in the action. I would be extremely wary of information coming out of the police involved with this, as I've seen a great deal of disinformation coming from them so far; for example their justification of the "bridge trap" incident by claiming fires caused by CS cans landing in tall grass were acts of arson by protesters, or an incident in which a man dressed as a protester and aggressively confronting police with an AR-15 was exposed as a pipeline security employee after other protesters confiscated the weapon and discovered an ID badge in his vehicle.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the police released these statements as a massive number of veterans joined the camp, bringing supplies of body armor and gas protection, especially considering that that influx preceded the USACE's denial of the next pipeline easement. If anything I find the police's characterization to be bizarre and frankly insulting to PTSD sufferers by insinuating that they could be manipulated and driven to violence against police by some vague "trigger".