That's interesting, the doctor who prescribed 6 months of antidepressants on barely a consult was older, perhaps 50s. The one who was more interested in all options and discussed lifestyle was younger but maybe not considerably younger (maybe late 30s, early 40s). He also taught one or two days a week at one of the Brisbane Universities I believe.
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News Antidepressants: 10 Shocking Studies Everyone Should Know
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anthony
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My last doctor is 30's, and my new one near me is also 30's, both of which are very anti-medication as a first line of defence for anything psychological. Skeptical even is a good word to describe their views on them in relation to mental health. Too much self-assessment in mental health vs science to back medication usage.
I would like to find a GP with this type of attitude and I may actually look for a younger GP (I know it's no guarantee but I like the theory, so it's a place to start). That and I've probably got to work out how to be bit more assertive. I've never actually said no when prescribed antidepressants, even though I've wanted to, and even though I have a long but sporadic history of trying different ones with no benefit. I just find it so hard to articulate my resistance to taking them.
Wow! What an eye opener! Australia is different than U.S. Most doctor's appointments here do not adequately address lifestyle or diet which seems very different than Australia. Wish we could copy that practice! I see a lot of med prescribing and then more meds to treat side effects of other meds and it just seems so med happy!
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anthony
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Yes, but America is capitalist, Australia is socialist, so in America it is every man, woman and child for themselves, everyone has rights to earn a dollar by whatever means -- Australia, if it is not in the best interest of the public, it more often than not gets shut down or simply isn't allowed. America has little red tape, Australia has shit loads of red tape, to protect the public as much as possible.
There are always exceptions here, and some doctors have sold out, however, they are few and far between, and even the older doctors typically have younger doctors around them, so they will quickly learn newer information and may change their views based on todays evidence. The more the public are educated and demand certain standards, the faster things often change. Australia has quite a demanding public for the overall benefit of all society.
Psychiatrists are often the worst offenders here... GP's are few and far between for med abuse, but that is a psychiatrists bread and butter, which is the bullshit of mental health. Many believe the rhetoric taught and further perpetuate it. I don't think there is much difference in psychiatrists between here and the US, from what I read. Psychologists here however, the majority are not medication crazy... and that is the positive to our mental health industry, as they're the primary carers for all therapy. Meds tend to be a secondary measure, not first line defence. Honestly, it is in a psychologists best interests not to use meds as a first line defence, as their bread and butter is in repeat appointments to treat the issue. I like the psychologists view here... psychiatrists are just broken IMHO for medication dispensation.
To be perfectly honest, the Internet is really making changes happen much faster than any other cause. People are more informed than ever nowadays, thus they can demand fair treatment.
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I hit a low point this week and had to call our emotional mobile crisis unit to come and help me. It was either that or go to the hospital. I hwas having heavy SI. I discussed with her the fact that my psychiatrist does NOT have me on antidepressants, even though I am Bipolar as well as PTSD. My trigger had been that a person who made a very improper physical sexual advance at me in the middle of the grocery store about a year ago had shown up at my safe haven (the Senior Center, where I go daily for fun and support) and he had started immediately making passes at me even though I have made it clear that I am not interested in him.
The lady from Moblile Crisis did not recommend for me to go see my psychiatrist to get an antidepressant, she recommended I make an emergency appointment with my therapist and she had me sign a contract that I would not harm myself or others, that I would call mobile crisis if I was having SI or just needed to talk and the contract had a few other positive action type things on it too.
I don't want another pill if I can help it. I didn't say that to her directly, but I did say I had heard that PTSDers were not supposed to take antidepressants, that in general, they don't help us. This was said to me verbally by my niece and I told it to my psychiatrist a long time ago and he has not prescribed them for me except sometimes during the winter in small doses (it is summer here now) for Seasonal Affect Disorder.
I eat dark chocolate when I get depressed. I have heard that it helps and for me it seems to a bit, but not totally. I am still depressed, but I am functioning as best as I can. I am going through my daily routines to the best of my ability, and being civil to the man who accosted me in the grocery. No more than civil, though, for sure. That is all I can do. I don't like it that he has seemingly invaded my safe place, but there is nothing I can do about that other than to have warned the director and a bunch of the folks who go there about what kind of man he is. (He was kicked out of our building about a year ago for drunken parties and loud music at 3 AM). My friends there are watching him for me and I am watching him too, as is the director. She said she already had to cite him for the use of bad language, which she does not allow there.
Time will tell, and I am hoping I don't need to call my psychiatrist to get antidepressants. That would be my last resort, should things escalate.
The lady from Moblile Crisis did not recommend for me to go see my psychiatrist to get an antidepressant, she recommended I make an emergency appointment with my therapist and she had me sign a contract that I would not harm myself or others, that I would call mobile crisis if I was having SI or just needed to talk and the contract had a few other positive action type things on it too.
I don't want another pill if I can help it. I didn't say that to her directly, but I did say I had heard that PTSDers were not supposed to take antidepressants, that in general, they don't help us. This was said to me verbally by my niece and I told it to my psychiatrist a long time ago and he has not prescribed them for me except sometimes during the winter in small doses (it is summer here now) for Seasonal Affect Disorder.
I eat dark chocolate when I get depressed. I have heard that it helps and for me it seems to a bit, but not totally. I am still depressed, but I am functioning as best as I can. I am going through my daily routines to the best of my ability, and being civil to the man who accosted me in the grocery. No more than civil, though, for sure. That is all I can do. I don't like it that he has seemingly invaded my safe place, but there is nothing I can do about that other than to have warned the director and a bunch of the folks who go there about what kind of man he is. (He was kicked out of our building about a year ago for drunken parties and loud music at 3 AM). My friends there are watching him for me and I am watching him too, as is the director. She said she already had to cite him for the use of bad language, which she does not allow there.
Time will tell, and I am hoping I don't need to call my psychiatrist to get antidepressants. That would be my last resort, should things escalate.
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anthony
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Sounds like your mobile crisis have things well in hand... anti-depressants don't fix triggered reactions, therapists do.
Justmehere
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I have a friend who watched someone die recently, went to her doctor really struggling right after the trauma. Instead of helping her get support to work through what happened, he only offered her a pill. Sent her back to work, where she freaked out and called me, in tears. Her doctor had not even suggested therapy, and she had figured she didn't need it until she almost lost her job.
My family put me on an antidepressant at age 16. It a psychiatrists first and only response to them on how to help their traumatized teenager. Not therapy, not ending the trauma, not anything else. My medical records from that time frame show that he diagnosed me with PTSD, and yet didn't recommend anything other than an antidepressant. Just take this magic pill...
And it's nothing new, at least not in the US.
In the 1800's, snakeoil was all the rage in the US. It's believed it was brought to the US from China. Snakeoil actually has some therapeutic real properties that are not fully understood and but can help for a few limited purposes. Mostly pain.
The problem is that it became the magic cure for all that ails a person, until it became synonymous with fake and possibly dangerous medicine.
It's the same path antidepressants are on. They are not well understood. They do have a role in medicine. A limited role. Those who overly push them do a great disservice to their value and it can lead to great harm.
I had a doctor once tell me that a particular antidepressant he wanted me to try was like "taking a vitamin." He said it wasn't necessary but "like a vitamin, it will help you function at your peak." I rolled my eyes and declined the medication. I also started to lecture him on the dangerous side of vitamins, but stopped because I figured he would think I was nuts. As for the medication, knew it's power, it's risks, better than he was willing to admit.
Not only was the medication dangerous, but so was the doctor's denial of the dangers of the medication. Sure, upon my questioning, he did admit the side effects and warnings that he has to share with me, but he kept saying it was a very safe medication. It wasn't his only tool, he had been a trauma therapist before he became a doctor. He did explore other non-medication options with me, and supported my therapeutic work. He did a very good job of exploring other options with me.
However, his unwillingness to consider the dangers of the medication more seriously nearly contributed to my death.
He did eventually talk me into taking the smallest possible dose. It did help, tremendously. I didn't think it would. It's one of a few that can have a quick effect. But, after a few days, I began to have side effects. The doctor and his nurse both dismissed my concern over the side effects. They did agree I could take it every other day, to give my body more time to "adjust," and they agreed to support my weaning off of it entirely, but they wanted me to stay on it. I was vulnerable. I wanted relief so badly. I was trying to trust them. I was trying to trust they were looking out for me. They were, but they were so steeped in denial that they didn't notice how bad things were getting.
I needed them to notice when it was getting to be too dangerous to take it. I liked the relief the medication gave me, and I really wrestled with how much they kept telling me it was ok to take. "It's very safe" they said, over and over. But others were beginning to notice the side effects. The doc and the nurse were just spouting all that the drug company told them about the medication.
A few weeks after starting the medication, the side effects suddenly got very bad once day. I called the doctor, and I described what was happening. They brushed it off. "It's not the medication." I was aware of the possibility of serotonin syndrome though, and all my symptoms matched up. Because I was aware of the dangers, I took my own side effects seriously and I went to the ER anyhow. Sure enough, I had developed a life threatening case of serotonin syndrome. The ER doc said if I had delayed even a day, I would have likely died.
Now I have a hard time even taking over the counter meds (which are not as safe as most people think they are).
The over prescription of meds also leads to misunderstanding PTSD and the recovery from it in a way that harms recovery. It promote the under funding of research to find better therapies and a cure for PTSD. I've read and heard so much about how the veterans administration in the US pushes pills, and yet doesn't pour as nearly much effort into other just as effective if not more effective treatments. I have written a grant proposal for a non-profit seeking to help give vets other options, but we ran into so many barriers with the popular belief that if someone is depressed, can't they just take a pill for it? Why do they need all this therapy?
Ugh.
Therapy has changed my own life in ways meds can't. Meds can't teach me how to keep and hold boundaries. Meds can reduce the effect of a trigger, but they can't make the trigger go away and resolve the underlying trauma. Meds can lessen grief and keep me alive through it, but they can't work it through for me. Meds can't mourn for me. Meds can't give me the skills I never got growing up as a kid. Meds have played a role in helping me stay in therapy and not off myself when it therapy triggering me to become suicidal, but it didn't eliminate the need to do the work in therapy.
Psych meds have a place, and its safer to take them when all parties are aware and prepared to watch out for negative effects and are willing to accept them as they truly are: a potentially life saving option for some, worth the risks for a moderate number of others, but not a cure all for every sad day anyone encounters. They are powerful substances with possible benefits, and real risks and dangers to watch out for.
As it's been said so well by @joeylittle, we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but awareness also never hurt anyone. I would even go a step further to say that better awareness of the dangers and drawbacks of antidepressants could save lives.
My family put me on an antidepressant at age 16. It a psychiatrists first and only response to them on how to help their traumatized teenager. Not therapy, not ending the trauma, not anything else. My medical records from that time frame show that he diagnosed me with PTSD, and yet didn't recommend anything other than an antidepressant. Just take this magic pill...
And it's nothing new, at least not in the US.
In the 1800's, snakeoil was all the rage in the US. It's believed it was brought to the US from China. Snakeoil actually has some therapeutic real properties that are not fully understood and but can help for a few limited purposes. Mostly pain.
The problem is that it became the magic cure for all that ails a person, until it became synonymous with fake and possibly dangerous medicine.
It's the same path antidepressants are on. They are not well understood. They do have a role in medicine. A limited role. Those who overly push them do a great disservice to their value and it can lead to great harm.
I had a doctor once tell me that a particular antidepressant he wanted me to try was like "taking a vitamin." He said it wasn't necessary but "like a vitamin, it will help you function at your peak." I rolled my eyes and declined the medication. I also started to lecture him on the dangerous side of vitamins, but stopped because I figured he would think I was nuts. As for the medication, knew it's power, it's risks, better than he was willing to admit.
Not only was the medication dangerous, but so was the doctor's denial of the dangers of the medication. Sure, upon my questioning, he did admit the side effects and warnings that he has to share with me, but he kept saying it was a very safe medication. It wasn't his only tool, he had been a trauma therapist before he became a doctor. He did explore other non-medication options with me, and supported my therapeutic work. He did a very good job of exploring other options with me.
However, his unwillingness to consider the dangers of the medication more seriously nearly contributed to my death.
He did eventually talk me into taking the smallest possible dose. It did help, tremendously. I didn't think it would. It's one of a few that can have a quick effect. But, after a few days, I began to have side effects. The doctor and his nurse both dismissed my concern over the side effects. They did agree I could take it every other day, to give my body more time to "adjust," and they agreed to support my weaning off of it entirely, but they wanted me to stay on it. I was vulnerable. I wanted relief so badly. I was trying to trust them. I was trying to trust they were looking out for me. They were, but they were so steeped in denial that they didn't notice how bad things were getting.
I needed them to notice when it was getting to be too dangerous to take it. I liked the relief the medication gave me, and I really wrestled with how much they kept telling me it was ok to take. "It's very safe" they said, over and over. But others were beginning to notice the side effects. The doc and the nurse were just spouting all that the drug company told them about the medication.
A few weeks after starting the medication, the side effects suddenly got very bad once day. I called the doctor, and I described what was happening. They brushed it off. "It's not the medication." I was aware of the possibility of serotonin syndrome though, and all my symptoms matched up. Because I was aware of the dangers, I took my own side effects seriously and I went to the ER anyhow. Sure enough, I had developed a life threatening case of serotonin syndrome. The ER doc said if I had delayed even a day, I would have likely died.
Now I have a hard time even taking over the counter meds (which are not as safe as most people think they are).
The over prescription of meds also leads to misunderstanding PTSD and the recovery from it in a way that harms recovery. It promote the under funding of research to find better therapies and a cure for PTSD. I've read and heard so much about how the veterans administration in the US pushes pills, and yet doesn't pour as nearly much effort into other just as effective if not more effective treatments. I have written a grant proposal for a non-profit seeking to help give vets other options, but we ran into so many barriers with the popular belief that if someone is depressed, can't they just take a pill for it? Why do they need all this therapy?
Ugh.
Therapy has changed my own life in ways meds can't. Meds can't teach me how to keep and hold boundaries. Meds can reduce the effect of a trigger, but they can't make the trigger go away and resolve the underlying trauma. Meds can lessen grief and keep me alive through it, but they can't work it through for me. Meds can't mourn for me. Meds can't give me the skills I never got growing up as a kid. Meds have played a role in helping me stay in therapy and not off myself when it therapy triggering me to become suicidal, but it didn't eliminate the need to do the work in therapy.
Psych meds have a place, and its safer to take them when all parties are aware and prepared to watch out for negative effects and are willing to accept them as they truly are: a potentially life saving option for some, worth the risks for a moderate number of others, but not a cure all for every sad day anyone encounters. They are powerful substances with possible benefits, and real risks and dangers to watch out for.
As it's been said so well by @joeylittle, we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but awareness also never hurt anyone. I would even go a step further to say that better awareness of the dangers and drawbacks of antidepressants could save lives.
Last edited:
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anthony
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The evidence just isn't there for medication in treating psychological conditions. It truly does not exist. Physical, sure... lots of good science for that, but mental... na da. Nothing that substantiates without a doubt that x works for y, and it is the exception it does not, not the rule.
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I am taking 8 meds altogether, 3-4 of which are for mental health reasons. I have Bipolar as well as PTSD. I wish I had never started taking the mental health meds. I feel as if I am trapped into them and can never get free of them, I have been taking them for so long. 2 of them do help me to sleep, so I am appreciative of that. However, I still have some trouble staying asleep and there seems to be no cure for that, which anyone can tell me about. The meds help me to GO TO SLEEP, but staying that way is at best a 50/50 shot. If I forget to take my bedtime meds, I stay awake ALL NIGHT LONG and in the morning, when I go look at my meds box, I discover why. So I feel locked into the meds. I see no way out. Also, one of my psych meds as well handles my restless legs syndrome, so I cannot stop taking it! I'd never get any sleep, as it will wake me over and over all night long and is a torture.
I honestly wonder, though, if I would be any worse off, if I had never started taking any of these psych meds!
What if I had lived 200 years ago and none of these things had been invented yet? What would my life have been like then, I wonder....
I honestly wonder, though, if I would be any worse off, if I had never started taking any of these psych meds!
What if I had lived 200 years ago and none of these things had been invented yet? What would my life have been like then, I wonder....
Ice_Fire
VIP Member
Well, I spent over three years on medication; one year on Citalopram and the rest of the time on Sertraline. I don't know the American names for these drugs, sorry. Anyway, the Citalopram made me worse. I self-harmed more, I felt jittery which added to my anxiety but I felt like a zombie at the same time. I gained a lot of weight very quickly and even the few things that I could previously still find pleasure in despite the depression seemed pointless. After a while my GP finally decided to try me on a different med, so I went on Sertraline. All that one did was make me fat and bloated. Don't think it helped my mental health at all. It just dulled my mind and made triggers less powerful but it didn't deal with the root cause. Also, my studies suffered, my mind was...I can't explain...like it was only working on half-power?
I've been off all meds since Feb 2015, I'd been cutting down since Christmas, very very slowly because I was scared of the withdrawal. I did not consult my GP, as whenever I raised the subject of the meds not improving me and feeling like therapy was working but the meds were actually holding me back, I simply got back "no, the medication works" and no answer when I asked them what studies supported this? I reeled off a couple of studies that showed increased suicidality with SSRIs and asked for the positive studies to persuade me to stay on them. Na da, no evidence at all. So I took myself off them; first half a tablet every day for a couple weeks, then 1/4 for a couple of weeks, then 1/4 every other day and then 1/8 (or as close as I could get to it) to the point where I couldn't chop the tablet up any smaller. And besides, I'd got to the stage where I was forgetting to do that every day and felt no different so was confident I could stop. In the end my last month's prescription lasted me about 7 weeks, as each tablet lasted longer and longer.
Ever since I've been off them, I've engaged with therapy better, slept better, lost weight and become more confident. Oh and my uni grades have risen from a 2:2 average to a high 2:1 with three essays getting a 1st. I don't think that's a coincidence. Honestly, I think being on the medication hampered my recovery rather than helped it.
I've been off all meds since Feb 2015, I'd been cutting down since Christmas, very very slowly because I was scared of the withdrawal. I did not consult my GP, as whenever I raised the subject of the meds not improving me and feeling like therapy was working but the meds were actually holding me back, I simply got back "no, the medication works" and no answer when I asked them what studies supported this? I reeled off a couple of studies that showed increased suicidality with SSRIs and asked for the positive studies to persuade me to stay on them. Na da, no evidence at all. So I took myself off them; first half a tablet every day for a couple weeks, then 1/4 for a couple of weeks, then 1/4 every other day and then 1/8 (or as close as I could get to it) to the point where I couldn't chop the tablet up any smaller. And besides, I'd got to the stage where I was forgetting to do that every day and felt no different so was confident I could stop. In the end my last month's prescription lasted me about 7 weeks, as each tablet lasted longer and longer.
Ever since I've been off them, I've engaged with therapy better, slept better, lost weight and become more confident. Oh and my uni grades have risen from a 2:2 average to a high 2:1 with three essays getting a 1st. I don't think that's a coincidence. Honestly, I think being on the medication hampered my recovery rather than helped it.
Changing4Best
VIP Member
I can definitely relate to the weight gain issue with meds. Dealing with that right now and I am not even on antidepressants. I think there must be a lot of meds that cause it, even Prednisone, which is for severe infections and the like. among other things, not for mental stuff.
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