Relationship Any luck/tips getting your issues resolved with your so?

[scout86]

My approach has been to ask him very specific questions, so he doesn't have to do that much thinking about what part/aspect he needs to address

I wonder if he doesn't get caught up in trying to figure out what answer you want to those questions. Because, usually, the "right" answer is the one the person asking wants. Whatever that is.

I've got to say, I'm still kind of hung up on the idea that him deleting a conversation from his phone was "wrong". I know you didn't like it, and I understand why you didn't, but it was his phone and his conversation, so it seems like he had a right to do with it what he wants.

 

[Hojay]

Because, usually, the "right" answer is the one the person asking wants. Whatever that is.

There really isn't a right or wrong answer here. I just want the truth, no matter what it is. I've told him that many times. If he's thinking in terms of what the right answer is to keep the peace then again I'm taking the role of a mother with some sort of power to punish or judge. I want him to take responsibility and I want him to let me take some for myself.

I know you didn't like it, and I understand why you didn't, but it was his phone and his conversation, so it seems like he had a right to do with it what he wants.

Of course. He has the right to do with his conversations what he wants. He has the right to say that he wants to do things behind my back, that's just how it is, and if I don't like it, I should leave. That would be a stance. Or he could say he's going to keep speaking to women in private and not tell me about the nature of those talks. He could tell me he's been having an affair and if I don't like it, I should leave. Or he could say that he really wasn't comfortable deleting that thing, but he was scared because of XYZ. Thing is, he's a grown man, can take responsibility for his own life and actions, and make a case for it. With that information, I can make my own choices. Then we'd have two adults talking.

So my question was, how to get out of the cycle that is me expressing the need to have a certain issue resolved and him retreating into panic until I potentially let go of that issue. I won't let it go. It takes two people to build a trusting relationship. Not one-sided blind faith based on guess work. Anyone who has ever been in a good, trusting relationship knows that that didn't come about because both people just blindly trusted one another or never screwed up for one to have to question that trust. It was built on honest communication (no matter how awkward, angry, or drawn out over time.) That's really not too much to ask.

 

[LuckiLee]

I like to strap my guy in a chair and put a ball gag in his mouth so he has to listen to all I have to say.

Really though the only thing that works is to wait a few days and address it when he's calm. But it sounds like you've already tried that.

It seems kind of childish of him to not let you express your concerns. I'm picturing a kid covering his ears and doing the la la la la bit. I can't hear you.

I guess I'd have to set a boundary. We're going to talk about this or I'm gonna...I feel for you I really don't know how I would react if J was trying to hide the fact he was communicating with another female. Sh*t would hit the fan. And i would have to know why too.

I have no answers for you. Sorry!! Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[LuckiLee]

I've been sitting here thinking about this...

When J has something he needs to address and have a conversation about. You better believe we have a conversation about it. Knock on wood, I haven't had to address anything like what you're going through @Hojay but dang we should be able to have a stinkin' conversation if we have to.

J is pretty good about this kind of stuff I must say. When we have an argument and it overflows his stress cup it NEVER gets resolved at the time. I usually have to use my "flight" response. When we've both calmed down (this is where J is awesome) he will ask me if I'm ok.That's my cue to express what I need to. He knows he reacts pretty intensely. And he knows (after the fact) that he was in PTSD mode.

If I were in your shoes and he wouldn't talk to me about it after 2 months I'd be all paranoid thinking he's still hiding something. It would drive me crazy.

✌ & ❤

 

[Buttercup]

How long does it take you guys to calm down @leehalf?

 

[LuckiLee]

Anywhere from a few minutes to a day. Sometimes we may go to bed angry (but he still tucks me in) :) The next day he'll ask in the sweetest way if I'm ok.

If I leave the situation early enough he calms down quicker. I know him pretty well. I can see his stress building and I know it's only a matter of time before he has to let it loose somehow. I expect it. And am usually prepared for it.

 

[scout86]

then again I'm taking the role of a mother with some sort of power to punish or judge.

You actually DO have the power to punish and judge. Mothers aren't the only people who can do that.

There really isn't a right or wrong answer here. I just want the truth, no matter what it is.

That seems totally fair and reasonable. Now, I'm speaking just for myself, not him, and basing this on my own experience. I've had the experience of people saying things like that and then, when I tell them the truth, as I see it, they get mad, tell me I'm wrong, and there's a price to be paid, of a sort. (It's hard to live with someone who's angry and, for me, it's unpleasant and stressful enough to be "a price". How far they want to carry it depends on the person.)

Anyway, because of my previous experiences, when someone tells me they just want to hear the truth, and they can handle it, no matter what it is, I greet that with a certain amount of skepticism. It's going to take awhile before I risk offering some small truth. When I do, I'm going to notice how it's greeted. If the person accepts it without judgement and doesn't come up with some way (either passive-aggressive or down right aggressive) to make me pay for it, I'll be more likely to risk more truth telling down the road. If they get mad at me? I'm not going to be in any great hurry to stick my neck out any time soon. Because the deal was, it's supposed to be safe to tell the truth.

So my question was, how to get out of the cycle that is me expressing the need to have a certain issue resolved and him retreating into panic until I potentially let go of that issue.

I think that's going to be hard. In the case you're talking about, for reasons of your own, you have strong feelings about him getting messages from other women. He knows that, right? How could he not? Your natural reaction to this situation is a trigger for him, the way it sounds. He doesn't have much choice but to panic, at this stage of the game. This feeds right into something that's a problem for him and it's a problem he hasn't got sorted out yet. Someday down the road, when he's got all of his own issues under better control, maybe he'll be able to handle this kind of disagreement. For that matter, some day down the road, when you've got your own issues better under control, you might be able to be less reactive yourself. But, at the moment, I honestly don't think there's any way to just fix this.

 

[Friday]

I sometimes solve the issue by just treatening to do what I like... like „Okay, You don‘t want me to spend money on X small item we can afford but cannot tell me why/you do not want me to dress in a short skirt but cannot tell me why/you want to give our children candybars but have no answer when I say they are not healthful. So listen up: I am going to take your wallet, take some money and spend it on x cheap item (or order it online), I am gonna visit my friend x wearing a short skirt cause there is no nasty men around and if you give the children candybars I am going to take them away from them and throw them into the trash because they eat to much sweets“. Then he suddenly thinks of reasons why he wants to do/wants me to do what he wants... or sometimes I just win which is also fine.

LMAO :hilarious: :roflmao:

Speaking as a sufferer...

This. This right here is why my best friend and I have been able to have a relationship for over 20 years, and is one of the best working things for me inside of a romantic relationship.

It’s very honest, very up front, very direct, a little bit flirty, & it gives me choices. I might not be happy with A or B :shifty: but I get to choose which is more important to me, THEY are happy with either A or B, so they’re happy either way... and it’s very now. Ie grounding. And a little bit mischievous. It makes for a very win/win situation. Because no matter what? We’re both getting something we want. So the duhn-duhn-duhn pressure? Completely off. Choose. A or B? Lol. I love it. Really do.

 

[Hojay]

I like to strap my guy in a chair and put a ball gag in his mouth so he has to listen to all I have to say.

Haha...yeah, won't lie. I've had that same thought. That gag ball...stuff of my daydreams.

We're going to talk about this or I'm gonna...

Yes, I keep arriving at that conclusion too. Boundary. It's a tricky one to enforce, because he continues to reassure me that we're going to talk about this. Really, when do you decide it's not going to happen and pull that boundary? There's a saying around my parts: "Hope is always the last to die." Well it hasn't died yet :(

When we have an argument and it overflows his stress cup it NEVER gets resolved at the time. I usually have to use my "flight" response. When we've both calmed down (this is where J is awesome) he will ask me if I'm ok.That's my cue to express what I need to. He knows he reacts pretty intensely. And he knows (after the fact) that he was in PTSD mode.

That sounds pretty similar to our dynamic as well. Only that in this situation, I can't reasonably answer his question "are you ok?" with anything but a "yeah, but I need this discussed," because of course I'm not okay and I'm not going to drop this one. I'm pretty good at remaining calm and reasonable and non-confrontational, but it's taking superhuman strength and patience to cater to his needs when I'm here having to question the foundation of our relationship. So...it's been difficult.

You actually DO have the power to punish and judge. Mothers aren't the only people who can do that.

I disagree with that somewhat. I have the power and right to make my own choices based on the information I'm receiving (be that staying or leaving.) That's me taking care of me and my boundaries and needs. A mother has the prerogative to lecture, judge, and punish in order to mold her child into a person that aligns with her values and beliefs. I don't have that ability or right as a partner. All I can do is take a look at what I'm dealing with (which is what I'm asking of him!) and make my own choice about leaving or staying. If he is keeping stuff hidden to prevent me from leaving, then he's overstepping his bounds and manipulating me by withholding information.

If the person accepts it without judgement and doesn't come up with some way (either passive-aggressive or down right aggressive) to make me pay for it, I'll be more likely to risk more truth telling down the road.

I totally agree with you. It's incredibly important to listen without judgement and not turn any flavor of aggressive (though there's a case to be made for the right to express anger, in a constructive way, of course.) But I'll have to ask: how does one hold you accountable for your mistakes (if the truth is some mistake, not something unrelated) if one isn't allowed to express one's dismay or disagreement because that would mean you clam up and not tell the truth the next time around?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this because what the above entails would basically mean him making a mistake, me listening in a loving, caring manner, while keeping any and all personal emotional response under wraps. That sounds more like a therapist's job to me than a partner on equal footing. Just so you don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to cater to his limitations b/c of his PTSD, so I'm not saying it's not also on me to make sure those conversations go smoothly. But I think it's a little much to ask to not hold someone accountable.

In the case you're talking about, for reasons of your own, you have strong feelings about him getting messages from other women. He knows that, right? How could he not?

Just to clarify again. I don't have strong feelings about him getting messages from other women. I'm not jealous or controlling. I do have strong feelings about secrecy, lying, and hiding. If there are reasons he wanted to keep that conversation private, that's fine. But it's secretive to not even be able to discuss that if it were the case.

Someday down the road, when he's got all of his own issues under better control, maybe he'll be able to handle this kind of disagreement.

Yes, that's what it's starting to look like. I think it all boils down to his triggers and difficulty working through them. This is a make or break point of whether his trigger management allows him to be fit and ready to be in a relationship. Or not.

ut, at the moment, I honestly don't think there's any way to just fix this.

I agree based on all of the above. I was just wondering if there are some communication tools, as well as boundary enforcement strategies, I could use to do my part in fixing this.

 

[scout86]

But I'll have to ask: how does one hold you accountable for your mistakes

In my version of reality, I am the person
who holds me accountable for my mistakes. People in my life have the right to tell me how they feel about things I do or say. In fact, I want to know how they feel. From there, I get to decide whether or not I think something was a mistake. If it seems like it was, I apologize. If it seems, to me, like what i did was ok, we agree to disagree. If it seems like something more than an apology is needed, we figure it out. Once it's over, for me, it needs to be over.

A mother has the prerogative to lecture, judge, and punish in order to mold her child into a person that aligns with her values and beliefs.

It's possible for anyone to do that. And, if you grew up in a situation where that was an issue to the point of leaving scars, when you're confronted, as adult, with a situation that has a whiff that energy, your brain is going to take you right back to the original situation, whether it makes sense or not.

I was just wondering if there are some communication tools, as well as boundary enforcement strategies, I could use to do my part in fixing this.

I don't know. My take is that the first step would be for you to decide what, exactly, you want him to do. For example, if you want him to show you all of his text messages, tell him that. He then gets to agree or disagree. Figure out, exactly, when you want to see them and how it's going to happen. Then, if he agrees, do it. You've set a clear expectation. He has a choice. You have a chance to explain you're reasons. You can even set consequences. Simple and straight forward.

If he is keeping stuff hidden to prevent me from leaving, then he's overstepping his bounds and manipulating me by withholding information.

That's not exactly how I think of it, but I think I get what you mean. What I would tell HIM, based on my own (painful) experiences, is that a relationship where you don't feel safe and comfortable just being yourself is WAY more trouble than it's worth. There's no point in trying to twist yourself out of shape to meet someone else's expectations. You can never do it good enough to meet the other party's expectations over the long haul. You may as well just be honest and let them reject you for it, if that's what's going to happen. (My own thought is that he doesn't see this as manipulating you. He sees it as trying to be the person you want him to be, even if he's not. Either way, it seems kind of counter productive.)

 

[Mytime]

I just want to ask a couple? before I add to the Conversation. What has his behaviour been like since the text message?
Is he still friends with this woman?
Do you know this woman?

 

[Hojay]

What has his behaviour been like since the text message?

Well, he was heavily triggered by not only our conversation, but other things that happened/are happening and were kicked loose by our situation. So he has been heavily symptomatic for about 2 months now. There have been bits of pieces of conversation during which I've gathered the info below. Other than that, it's been minimal contact (though daily,) and since we don't live in the same city, no seeing each other. He is now somewhat back on his feet and we're starting to normalize our interactions. Even some joking and a little bit if headway into potentially discussing all of this, and we're planning on finally seeing each other in person.

Is he still friends with this woman?

So according to him, this was a woman who got in touch with him for work reasons a few months prior. He says they corresponded about said work things, but he's never met her in person, their involvement did not go beyond work, and was wrapped up a few months back. She wrote him on a Sunday night and, according to him (I don't know, cause he deleted the content of the actual message) she just wrote "how are you doing.?" He was confused about why she would do that, he says, and deleted the message to avoid conflict.

Whether or not their still talking, I have no idea.

So yeah, could be totally harmless. Then again, why would a work acquaintance just up and write him like that on a Sunday night? Sure, some people do that, but hey, warrants a question and calm answer. Also the mere fact that he would think to delete something so harmless, makes the whole thing not look to harmless.

Do you know this woman?

I don't know her, but I know of her. A friend of mine who knows her went sleuthing (I didn't ask her to do this!) and she found out that this woman doesn't seem to have been to his region recently, and hasn't told anyone about having some romantic interest in her life. So that could mean a lot...or nothing....

Either way, lots of questions and discussion needed.