April 29, 1975 - My Heart, Again, Is Sinking......

[BaMuoiBa]

God help me! I just want to hit something or someone. Again, young men sacrificed all for an ungrateful, uneducated populace unwilling to defend the gift of freedom. This emptiness I don't wish it on anyone, it just breaks my f*ckING HEART to see this happen again. The fall of Saigon brought me to tears and a one week bender too many years ago.

I can only feel empathy for my brother and sisters who fought and returned to see that it was all for naught. Your war was no different than mine. As the news reports, again, that Baghdad is about to fall as Saigon 39 years ago.

History lesson: http://www.fallofsaigon.org/iframe.php?id=1

I know the feeling oh so well. All I could reflect on is the men I knew that answered the call (Draft) and those friends who enlisted and are enshrined on a black marble wall in DC. If I was in DC today and placed my hand over the one of those names the reflection would surely be shaking his head. We all understand that the cause is always secondary to the life of the man at your side but it must still be just and honorable.

In my old age I just don't know anymore. I'm currently reading "Achilles in Vietnam" (by Jonathan Shay, MD, Ph.D). In a nutshell its about combat trauma and the undoing of character based on betrayal of leaders in the time of Homer (The Iliad) and Vietnam. Good Lord, it rings as true today as it did 3000 years ago when Homer wrote the poem.

I was watching one of the "talking heads" interviewing one of the Veterans about this Bergdahl matter and at the end the conversation leaned toward the current mess in Iraq. What he said I would not wish on my worst enemy, he said "I now understand what the Vietnam Vets felt when they returned". Welcome to my world Brother.

The pain never ceases - it only softens with time.

Ba

 

[JarHed]

We can't seem to keep our noses out of other peoples business. We were called and we served at a terrible cost, much like today. In the end it's this; if people in the countries that we fought and died in don't have the balls to stand up for their own freedom and rights then they don't deserve to have them. I'm tired of us being the f*cking policemen of the world.

We spent over 700BILLION in IRAQ, and that doesn't factor in all the men and woman that were wounded and will need continuing help and medical coverage. And I'd be surprise if we don't wind up there again. And to what end? I'm just tired of seeing good young men and woman sent through yet another meat grinder for some bullshit political reason.

I'm a Marine, no f*cking dove by any stretch of the imagination but there's a time to fight and a time not to. We have billions for a bunch of butt f*ck countries but none for what is needed at home. Just tired of all that stupid stuff.

 

[BaMuoiBa]

Thank you Jar!

I'm just tired of seeing good young men and woman sent through yet another meat grinder for some bullshit political reason.

My sentiments exactly!

Semper Fi!

Ba

 

[atilla]

Again...f*cking bullshit...If these raghead pieces of shit can't do it themselves f*ckem. After we came home from desert storm, we were kind of pissed off that we didn't go all the way to Bagdad. Were were like 43 miles from there..sometimes closer unofficially. But when they told us that we were just there to destroy sadam's war-making ability for 10 years..we were like wtf. sure enough we were back again 10 years later. Too many brothers and sisters gone for no good reason at all. Gas, oil, security and stability in southwest asia. Horse shit. Those f*cking haji's should be left alone...left to kill each other off. Problem solved. We should pull all of our troops out and say f*ck you,or let Israel turn the region into a glow in the dark parking lot.Obama's such a f*ckin MORON, and so are the rest of the bastards in charge of our country. I hope it finally comes to the point that if the government wants to keep wasting the lives of our best and brightest, people start taking a stand and stop this. If its about oil..go in take over the country..kill everyone that even looks cock-eyed at us, and take the f*cking oil. I am waiting with ODG for a regime change!

 

[reddevil1111]

I am sure it was this way with everyone. When I was serving it was just that- serving. I was Told what to do and how to do it. I was not asked about the political process or to debate the reasoning or morality for being where I was. That was supposed to be for the politicians to determine. I was merely a sword of justice for the politicians to use in order to regain proper political dialogue. If the politicians were corrupt or wrong for the way they ordered my use that's on them.
If you bothered to debate the issue as we sometimes did, it only causes strife within your unit. Personal beliefs come out and that damaged the team and the unity we worked hard to establish. It only took two of these types of discussions to come out before we all agreed to shelf our private views for the duration in order to preserve our team unity. We focused on being bloodthirsty killers who were there to kick ass and make sure we all came home in one piece. It worked somewhat.

I think a lot of units allowed the talk to continue and it hampered moral. My unit was smaller and we did everything we could to support each other. That makes a big difference as well.

I did think about the politics of the war in Iraq. I think OIF/OEF wasted a lot of money and a lot of troops were wounded/killed for no solid objective. Its clear (and has been for some time) that we cant settle the tribal, religious, territorial problems that exist in either country. The best thing we can do is get out as fast as we can and call it a day.

I agree we should spend more at home and fix more of our own problems rather than spending so much on the rest of the world. America should not act as the policeman of the world. Let the UN act in that role.

We keep cutting our military while other nations grow theirs. We also have military brass that insist that we fund crazy pricy big programs that wont work. And they keep doing it over and over. It took over 20 years for the troops to get better boots than what we had in Korea. We carry the same weapon that's 20 plus years old. There are no better weapons? No advancements? The same goes for all field equipment. Like radios, vehicles, support systems, even the food and water distribution. Hell, the navy is getting rid of surplus ammo and munitions that the Air Force is requesting permission to purchase. There is no infrastructure to communicate intra-service to allow better distribution of stores that are in each service. Its insane! The different services cant help each other out to fulfill the needs they have.

It occurs to me that when they have a reduction in forces as the current draw down comes at hand, they are letting go thousands of service members. Yet they continue to recruit heavily. Why cant the option of changing services be provided to allow service members to continue their career if they want? Why can the returning service members fill those slots that the raw recruits are filling? Retraining a current member would save the service the cost of initial training of boot camp and provides a proven team player to fill the need.

There is a lot wrong with the military and the political process. Now that most of us are civilians the most we can to is be active in voting(what little that really does) and having a loud voice for change. We don't have to agree politically to join in and fight for vet rights. To correct the mistreatment of vets in our system. Like the VA having a surplus the past 5 years while denying basic service to vets. That's an outrage we should all be up in arms over.

Sorry about the long post.... im on a coffee induced hyper mode today.

 

[JarHed]

Good words here, I think many if not all here feel the same. I was a grunt in the field. When you or the men in your charge are at risk you don't think about the right or wrong or the politics of the situation. Survival and getting the job done is what's at hand.

When I was a kid, my parents and their friends and relatives would talk about all this kind of stuff. I thought it was stupid, I was a stupid kid. Now I, we, talk about it as we're the ones it all affects. It all seems like it's gotten beyond the point where we can change the course we're on. Where ever that is taking us. The problems are complex and no simple solution will suffice. I wonder what the world will be like in 50 years.

I do know one thing, there will still be people like us, willing to serve our countries with the hope that we can make things better.

Jar

 

[OldDoorGunner]

Very well said Ba and I feel the same brother. I can't say much at this point, as my anger is getting the best of me.
All I have is anger, pain and outrage brought from the passed, to the future ......Seeing history repeating it's self, is hard to take.....

J R

 

[Sapper1]

AGREE.
AGREE.
AGREE.

 

[atilla]

Real hard to take Brothers.

 

[Wagon]

It's all betrayal.

At the end of the cold war, Just when I got out, I felt pretty good about the old US. We had won. Even the debacle of Vietnam was somehow vindicated. We won, we could re-write it all. We could finally stand down and actually enjoy peace.

We got more war....betrayal. Nobody can tell me that we just up and ditched an Ally in the Middle East without a huge amount of money going around. Lets see.....A year before the war...who sold Kuwait horizontal drilling technology? Hmmm Zapata Oil and Haliburton. Which in turn began tapping Iraqi oil fields. 12 years before who sold Iraq chem weapons to gas the Iranians. Hmmmm USA?

Its not some conspiracy diatribe. Thats all fact. I just think that after the cold war how things really operate were exposed. We look more like Imperial Japan now than any sort of coherent republic. Imperial Japan had a problem. Elements of the government became so big and powerful. that they would act independently abroad. The empire would just up and expand without the central governments approval or foreknowledge. WTF?

Obama is just playing front man. He's not in charge of anything. He's just doing what the latest boss (Agency or Corporation) is telling him to do. "Get your ass out there and feed em some bullshit Berry. Do I need to show you the Kennedy "Dallas" video again"

Again its all betrayal. Our government is bought and sold 200% by corporations. we might as well start choosing corporations to run the damn country and skip the middle man. I vote for Playboy and the Mom and Pop grocery on the corner.

Also the VA is an illusion. David Copperfield couldn't conjure up a bigger mirage than that thing.

This is all a giant betrayal of the public and most of all the military. Might as well replace the stars and stripes with a dollar bill flag and cart that around. Maybe incorporate a couple corporate emblems.

Haliburton!!!! Proud sponsor of Iraq3

Statistical support provided by RAND Corp. "The people who counted Nam"

Number fudging provided by PWC "Cooking the books is our specialty"

All combat personel will now be reclassified as caste (front line) or roadie (support). Theater cast are encourage to mind camera angles and die as dramatically and as many times as possible. Roadies are not eligible for "screen pay" regardless of how many times they die.


Wagon

 

[atilla]

Rock on Brother....I totally agree. Just hope i'm still young enough to participate when it all collapses completely. With you ODG.

 

[Grizzly]

Your right on wagon. It's a military industrial complex.