Attachment & Abuse/trauma

[sea]

So I have pretty big attachment issues stemming from the result of my childhood which manifest in disorganized behavior toward other people. This is because I don't understand people. They seem arbitrary to me, they seem like they constantly switch it up and change their minds, their whims, their roles, their perceptions, what their words mean, their emotions. Sounds normal, right? I mean normal people change how they feel, emotions themselves are transient, thoughts are transient, that people have the choice to choose to change whatever they want is like an integral part of humanity.

But for me it's devastating when it happens, I can't fathom it because it's like, so transient. I can't understand people's motivations at all. I can't fathom that what they say remains the same, and because of my self-hate shit, I think that I'm the reason why they've changed, because they change toward me. (But no one else seems to notice this, like no one with normal healthy attachment notices this, so I think it's an abandonment/consistency thing if people deviate slightly it's like Catastrophy-Of-Everything.)

See I've posted a lot about this over the last months being here mostly restricted to my diary but I wonder if I could open up some sort of dialogue about it here because according to logic, it shouldn't be that uncommon for trauma survivors especially of childhood trauma to have attachment issues, should it? For me it has to do with consistency. It is like there is no person who can be consistent enough with me for me to be able to trust that they won't suddenly change their mind and hate me and run off and leave me and despise me and hurt me. Because when I was a kid, people changed their minds about it all the time.

Sometimes my father loved me, sometimes he beat the shit out of me and sold me to his friends for drug money. Sometimes when I did something he was nice to me, other times I did the exact same thing and he'd lock me in the basement for a week. You know? I never knew what to expect. I never knew if he would hate me one minute or like me the next minute. I've been with Chris, my supporter, for about 19 years now and I still expect that she will turn around and walk out the door any moment, because she just can't take it any more.

Forget friends! Forget casual acquaintances! 19 years of complete consistency and acceptance isn't enough! I am just a hopeless case, aren't I? I don't know, what it's rooted in exactly, but the most obvious answer is clearly abandonment, which is tied in with attachment issues anyway. God it makes me look like such a tool sometimes, because in trying to morph and change and adapt to what I think people want, I must appear to be completely f*cking psycho to them, never remaining consistent myself, always aimless, never my own person.

It's like a dog that you buy that shits everywhere and snarls and barks and growls and whimpers and rips up all your furniture and bites your legs and chews your fingers when you feed them and bristles when you touch them, and if you punish them for it, they just get worse, you know? You have to be patient and chill, like, forever. And over time they will slowly start trusting you. But if you deviate from the pattern a tiny bit, they'll come back 20x worse. That's what I'm like. Sometimes when I get low I wonder why anybody would want to put up with that. But somehow people do, and they must be some kind of miracle.

Sometimes people are nice to me and I feel like they are being condescending, or they are being inappropriate or abusive, or I just get so agitated and messed up that I can't deal with it, I am so extremely comfort-resistant and messed up with that stuff, like I don't deserve it. Like if someone beat the shit out of me I would be more comfortable than if someone gave me a hug. Chris hugs me a lot and sometimes I have to fight the urge not to hit her and run. I mean it's completely ridiculous, it's like my behaviors have no purpose, they're so frenzied and agitated and psychotic and trainwrecky.

So for me it is like, because everything was so inconsistent when I was a kid, I can't handle it as an adult. It makes me crazy. Completely psycho. I can't have a healthy relationship with anyone. I don't know what to do about this. What can I do? Because it is so ingrained I can't just think "well that's their shit, this is my shit, etc" (they do that with BPD and it does help a lot but it's like, with this, "what if you're wrong? And then you bother them, you freak, they hate you.")

As of lately I have just been getting more silent. I won't talk unless someone talks to me. I need to trust that they want me to talk to them. But that trust takes so long to build that by the time I'm ready to talk, they've moved on, or, nobody talks to me because my silence to them, means that I can't be bothered with them. Right? It's f*cked up. Normal people just talk to eachother and if someone doesn't like it, well, too bad, right? Too bad, so sad, you don't like me, f*ck you.

My therapist yells at me because I don't talk to him, and he says I am treatment resistant and not wanting to be in therapy because I don't want to talk, because when he yells at me I sort of know he doesn't want me there, you know? I'm not sure what to do about all this but I'm feeling pretty good about actually understanding some of what is happening in my head. (Which, screw you, therapist, I can totally do by myself, hahaha, haha harr harr... no I'm just really mad at him right now, lol.)

I mean it's like I've been in therapy 9 months and every 2 weeks I had to "restart" therapy all over again because I didn't believe my therapist wanted me there anymore and it is just so easy to lose my trust, because people never really have it, because I can trust that people don't intend to hurt me, but to trust that they want to listen to what I have to say, or to trust that they care? To trust that their niceness is not just because they're nice, but because they are being personally nice to me? I am always "starting from the beginning" with people because I have to re-build this obnoxious sense of "oh crap they don't like me anymore ok I will be calm, quiet, ok, slooooowwwlllyyy opens up again." Ugh, how irritating!

So what I am wondering is pretty simple:

Do you deal with this? Why do you think you have this problem? What do you do about it? What do you tell yourself to make it easier? Or do you have any other sort of attachment issues? Do they affect your friendships/therapy/life significantly? Etc.

Anybody can feel free to contribute.

 

[shell]

Yes I have attachment issues, they are so bad I no longer attempt to make friends, and when someone is being friendly I immediately back away because I feel really uneasy about someone being nice.

I constantly think my husband my husband of 20 years is going to leave me, even though he is always saying he loves me and has never given me any indication he would. In fact, if anything, he is totally supportive of me getting help for my problems.

With therapy I find it hard to be myself, if I even know who that is, because I'm scared to reveal what I'm feeling and I feel like he is going to get annoyed if I get emotional. I constantly think I'm wasting his time and there are people with worse issues than me. I really like him, he is really helping me, but I'm scared of liking him as that will make me reliant on him.

I have major issues trusting anyone, because it feels like I just waiting for the rejection to come. I would never let anyone get intimate with me, even my husband gets blocked by the wall I put up, although it has improved for him since I started therapy. For the first time in 20 years we are really starting to talk because I'm only just starting to realize I'm not defective like they made me feel, they were!

It's just my constant insecurities, from a lifetime of rejection from my parents and their abuse.

 

[sea]

Hey, thanks for your input Shell. :)

 

[Sterre]

Do you deal with this? Why do you think you have this problem? What do you do about it? What do you tell yourself to make it easier? Or do you have any other sort of attachment issues? Do they affect your friendships/therapy/life significantly? Etc.

Yes, my attachment issues affects my life in so many ways.
Like you I find it hard not to become insecure of people who change their minds/emotions all the time ( or so it seems to me). I understand that emotions are fluid like, they are not static, they change, but I find it hard not to become insecure about my bond with someone when their emotions change.
I always feel responsible for the change.

I need clarity from people around me. No mixed messages, no hidden agenda's, just simple clarity. Some people think it is harsh to be clear/direct, but due to my sensitivity towards their changing emotions and the confusion that I feel when someone's emotions are changing, I need clear,honest and direct messages.
That is one part of the issue.

The other part is that I find it really hard to form a bond with someone. I will wear them out by not being able to rely on the bond that is created. I've noticed people get tired and hopeless about me not trusting them in a natural way, like others seem to do. Even after many years of friendship this can occur over and over again.

Frankly, I dont deal with it. I avoid most people and close bonds now. It is to complicated, and I dont want to hurt or get hurt anymore, because of this innability that I display.

While reading your post I became aware that this could also have been a real problem in my last therapy. My T was getting tired of discussing our therapuetic relationship towards eachtother. I wasnt aware of that, but she said it to me in one of our last meetings.

I dont know what to do about it, other than of being aware of it, and trying to figure out how to deal with it the best way possible.

 

[sea]

I need clarity from people around me. No mixed messages, no hidden agenda's, just simple clarity. Some people think it is harsh to be clear/direct, but due to my sensitivity towards their changing emotions and the confusion that I feel when someone's emotions are changing, I need clear,honest and direct messages.

I really, really, really, really relate with this. I can't do the whole subject-to-interpretation thing. I need people to be blunt with me. In return, I am usually very blunt. Diplomacy is a skill I am just starting to develop. (The only difference I'm noticing so far is more use of words like "Should, maybe, perhaps" lol.) When people aren't specific or clear with me it increases the arbitrary-people factor for me a lot. Thanks for posting :) I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

[Tinyflame]

Sea, I think (this is probably of no help because it is so obvious :( ) complicated or 'caused' (not the exact word I'm looking for) by feelings (internally) of 'unsafety', panic, and lack of belief in a self-worth. The result- it's hard to relax, or trust (also to find trustworthy people, or believe them), and difficult also not to react to the panic. To internalize our 'explanations'.
-Back to 'triggers' really, and lack of belief in self- worth, as you have often eloquently explained. ( :) )
-Self-rejection.

 

[simplekindofgirl]

I also have attachment issues. My attachment issues are the same but also different. I do not entirely trust my own judgement, so how can I trust anyone else's? I have not always been a good person, I have made several horrible choices. But that is not who I am now. I have changed, because I wanted to in order to pursue my own happiness. But my judgement of people, the choices I have made for the relationships I have engaged in is rather questionable. Trust is futile for me. Or at least entertaining the notion of it is, rather.

I suppose it because of the fact that people can and do change- in both directions- that I am more tolerant and accepting of people and their behaviors. I understand that people are just people, often opinionated and disorganized in their thinking. But occasionally you find one (or a few over time) that accepts you, just as you are, and you can hardly believe it because you can hardly accept yourself. And when they come into your life, and no matter how long they stay, that little thing in our head screams at us, this ugly, evil voice comes in to steal our confidence and says (in one way or another)- you aren't worth it so do not count on them sticking this out. But they do, time and time again. And we still can not hardly believe it.

Even in therapy we feel this. I am like Sterre, and you Sea- therapy resistant. I have put a lot of thought into it. It is only my opinion, but I honestly think this means something other than what our T suggests with words. I think it means that sometimes we hit a wall in our treatment, like a person running a marathon. We have gone so far. Worked through so much, travelled the length and then- BAM- hit the wall. You have to fight to keep moving forward, you feel that you can't- and you start talking about semantics instead of healing, and your/my therapist says enough- but that feels more like abandonment than assistance, because it is.

There is little choice but to abandon the repetition as you can not finish a marathon if you are stuck running in circles. This has not necessarily been such a bad thing. I am making better progress away from therapy than I felt I was making while in it. It took some time for it to function in that manner, but once it did, I realized that I have the strength to finish and cross that line to the days where I manage my symptoms efficiently. I am not there yet, but I am moving again and I will get there- without the added expense and the stress of being on the schedule of a therapist.

Boundaries. That is about all you can count on when you can not trust. "This is what I am willing to do, this is what I expect of you, and if you do not live up to that then I will not entertain this idea any longer." This is how I usually present it. And Sterre is right- people find it abrasive, too upfront and cold. But those are the people that do not understand the basic human condition and do not recognize that the same boundaries are set for everyone, we just choose to make them clear because we must. It replaces that trust, or lack there-of.

Just my thoughts on it. Hugs to you all.

 

[sea]

Sea, I think (this is probably of no help because it is so obvious)

When I figured it out I laughed for like 10 mins in a row because I was like "This is seriously my big mysterious problem? Rejection/abandonment?" :rolleyes: It seems so obvious, but it's like I totally didn't get it until right now. I guess maybe it's less obvious to me than I think, haha.

"This is what I am willing to do, this is what I expect of you, and if you do not live up to that then I will not entertain this idea any longer.

This is something I am contemplating doing with my current therapist. He is a first class asshole. :devilish: Boundaries are something I have a big problem with. I either go completely overboard (I.E "If you don't f*ck off, I'll slit your throat") or I just annihilate any sense of myself (I.E "I am whatever you want me to be/do/exist as/let's be the same person"). I am planning to go in the f*ck-off direction with my T, though, lol.

Thanks guys! This is all interesting stuff regardless.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear Sea- yes- I think at it's core less about 'attachment' than given ('our') past histories- fear. It's also hard to trust during fear (or feelings of it).

And given our propensities to be negative towards ourselves, and to find a 'meaning' for our feelings in the present (albeit most-often so affected or directly related to the past/ our past experiences and histories), we likely are more inclined to explain it as 'rejection' or 'we' are at fault.

 

[Tinyflame]

I have tried to find the answer cognitively Sea- but I think it boils down to a real leap of faith.
We've got ptsd- this stuff goes with the territory- :eek: :( :oops: :confused: :cry: :mad: :eek: (lol)-
Hugs-

 

[sea]

I think at it's core less about 'attachment' than given ('our') past histories- fear. It's also hard to trust during fear (or feelings of it). - And given our propensities to be negative towards ourselves, and to find a 'meaning' for our feelings in the present (albeit most-often so affected or directly related to the past/ our past experiences and histories), we likely are more inclined to explain it as 'rejection' or 'we' are at fault.

I tend to believe that emotions and logic are not opposites. In my experience there has always been a sort of logic to emotions, as the opposite of logic is illogic, not emotion. Star Trek really f*cked the bucket with that Straw Vulcan bullshit. I think there can be a logical explanation for just about everything, but I think the difference is in what is factual and what is true. It is factual that early childhood abandonment can cause abandonment issues later in life, but it isn't true that all childhood abandonment will cause abandonment issues.

Or, that all abandonment issues are the result of childhood, as truth has to exist in every interpretation. So I guess for me I tend to try and solve my problems cerebrally, which often doesn't help me feel any better, but it has helped me to be able to make sense of things and to be able to accept that is what they are. It's much more precise for me to explain my issues this way than it is to simply state they are due to fear, because fear is imprecise - an umbrella term - at least for me.

I'm not sure if I am making much sense, but at its core I thought it was pretty valid to attempt to break it down beyond the unbelievable vortex of misery in my chest. As children we are not capable of intellectualizing abandonment and attachment, but it does manifest as fear - which is where you're right. Fear covers a lot of grounds, and it is factual to say "It's a result of fear" but for me, it helps to break it down. It's not true that fear is the sole cause of fear. If I can learn why I am the way I am, at least I have that explanation, so I don't have to feel so f*cking crazy, lol. You know? Not sure if this makes sense.

The main reason I made this thread was to see if anybody else had any success in dealing with this or if anyone relates at all, though it has been helpful to me personally as well in being able to explain my issues specifically - I am interested in hearing any other people's experiences and if they have done anything to cope with it so that you are not just stuck in silencemode for the rest of eternity. I also haven't seen a lot of discussion on attachment issues specifically to do with trauma and PTSD, just less specific issues such as dealing with abandonment, which does not comprise the whole problem, so was looking to see if that was because it doesn't exist in this community or because people are afraid to talk about it. Considering this board has 10 replies and over 70 views, I'm wondering if it's the latter, lol.

I feel so much better when I know what people want, when I'm doing what people want, that I'm not even a person. I don't have the, IDK, confidence or the ability to be a person without fear of annihilation by someone else for trying to establish myself as a separate person. Is that possible to like, stop? Ungh.

Unfortunately either way I guess we're all screwed unless we figure out how exactly to stop it. I think the solution is more on your vein though. Eliminating fear. (A la Star Trek, if you were so inclined to be an obnoxious nerd like me, "Cast out fear. You can do nothing until you Cast Out Fear.") To me, it's like, I can't just look at this big knot of fear like "Okay, well, I'll just delete the fear." Fear of what? So that's where all the questions come in. My emotions work on a logical level, I have to explain it because otherwise I can't follow it down to its origins and disengage it. Well, hell, I'm not doing a very good job of that now, I guess.

 

[AuraBunny]

Hi Sea, I understand how frustrating it can be to make sense of why people do the things they do and in fact it is not in our power to change the decisions of others as much as it hurts to see that they go completely 180 degrees on us.

I've had many friends come and go, even family threaten to sell me out. I grew up in domestic abuse where my mom was in denial for over 20 yrs and my dad was nice then the next day he told me I was the most worthless f*cking bitch ever and punched me in the face, next day, then smiled back at my friends the next hr and everyone telling me things that weren't true. I been in a mindf*ck since I was a kid and have started to reevaluate everything from a more logical point of view.

Sometimes I think the hardest part is accepting that people are going to act the way they do and its about knowing who is worthy of your time, friendship, and care. I think the challenge sometimes is determining who can be trusted and who can't be. Its not to say I haven't said or done things completely out of whack, trust me when people trigger my stress, it isn't pretty. When I feel I am taken advantage of, I go off so much that I want to kill some of the people who did this, but in the end, what is more worth it? My happiness or revenge? If I had to pick, I would rather take back my own power, dignity, and leave that all behind me because the more energy I invest on those people, the more miserable I would feel.

If I had to solve my own problems on top of everyone else's I think it would drive me crazy as well. Sometimes its way better to just say, you know I understand that you don't like me and you have your opinions, despite how rash and angry we feel we have to just say, I accept that. I think accepting things for what they are will help us to keep our cool and think you know let's move on to something that is worth our time and to keep an eye out for the warning signs in the future. I hope this helps, just try and think positive and understand there's people who care like your supporters. The only way out of this is to be a more positive person within yourself, we need to have a different outlook so that we can enjoy the good things in life. The more we dwell on negative things, the more we expect it to come, then it will come. As much as we think the world isn't in our control, it pretty much can go either way but when we think of the good outcomes that can come out of misfortunes that is what gives us more strength to push forward.

I want to recommend you to read this book/documentary called the Secret. Try it just to see how it goes. I want to know if it makes a difference. :)