Best least expensive raw meat diet for a dog?

[Fadeaway]

I am coming from the perspective of switching cats and ferrets, not dogs. So I compleatly forgot about the fact that different dog breeds might have different capabilities when it comes to bone. Keep that in mind.

I also am a member of a raw forum where I made the switch under a mentor. Since then I have done 4 switches on my own. The forum is for ferrets but cats and ferrets have the same nutritional needs where dogs are a little different. I will ask them for you if they have a mentor that also has experience with dogs willing to mentor you, of if they know of a mentor they can connect you with. I found a forum for dogs, but it was pretty dead.

Just want to stress again that while this is for obligates, I will note where I think the information should be different for dogs.
To start the switch, you start with soupies. The soupies are to help them get used to the taste and recognize raw as food without having to worry about different textures. You can spoon feed them if they are having trouble accepting it. You can dab it on their nose so they lick it off first. Just keep offering every 1/2 hour or so the first day if they are resisting.

Soupie recipe:
8oz chicken meat
1 oz heart (~1-2 chicken hearts) *I don't know if dogs have the same requirement for heart that cats and ferrets do.
1 oz liver (~1/2 chicken liver)
1/2-3/4 tsp powdered eggshell
Water- enough for desired texture.

This is for a small animal so you are going to quadruple it at least. I suck at math so I will let you do that. Freeze into individual portions.

Once they are eating the soupies with no problems you can start adding chunks of meat into the soupies. Start off small and the make them larger.

When introducing bone, start off with chicken wing tip and smash them with a hammer before adding to the soupies. Then try non smashed and increase size over the next few days. Chicken feet into the soup is also a good introduction to bone. I have always has a lot of success with smashing neckbones with a hammer.

Or you could always stick to a full soup diet, but I find that is more work in the long run.

So after they get used to eating the the soupies you just follow their lead on when to introduce more. Some will take to it right away and you will have them eating full raw by the end of the day, others it takes weeks.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Thanks @Fadeaway, I never thought to start with a soup like thing. And a mentor would be faboulous! Thanks again!

 

[Justmehere]

Personally this is the first I have heard of not feeding kibble with raw.

Maybe it was because it was from someone with experience with ferrets. Not dogs. Well meaning advice, and good general principles for ferrets or other members of the wesel family. But they are very different animals from dogs and have different nutritional needs. Ferrets actually have much much shorter digestive tracts than dogs. They are actually missing the cecum, which dogs have. All this changes how they absorb nutrients considerably. So what is good for one carnivore may not be good for all other carnivores.

When looking for dog food info, I'd suggest not only breed specific recommendations, but species specific too, so that no nutritional deficiencies build up over time.

 

[Abigail7]

Have you considered switching to a high quality kibble in the meantime? (I think you mentioned being on low quality kibble now, right?) Raw may be financially unobtainable right now, but with a little leg work you can find high quality kibble for cheap. Earlier this year I bought a LOT of kibble (won't mention the brand) that was being clearances out due to a change in packaging. (Posted on deal sites.) I also have a local supplier of overstock high quality dog food. All for cheaper than you'd pay for Purina Dog Chow. (Low end stuff.) I don't have the time, energy, or money to go raw (most people don't), so it's about doing what you can with what you've got.

 

[Fadeaway]

Here are two very different opinions on feeding kibble and raw to dogs. Both sides are well supported.

Pro kibble and raw combo
DIGEST THIS: Kibble May Actually Digest Faster Than Raw

Anti kibble and raw combo
Mixing Kibble With Raw? Here's the Problem ... - Dogs Naturally Magazine

 

[Crow]

Great info guys. Thanks! I've been feeding raw nearly four years but I'm learning a lot here. I transitioned my older cats over 18 months using freeze dried. Meaning I did a hard change to freeze dried and then slowly introduced raw. A tip from the vet who helped with the transition was to sprinkle freeze dried organ meat or salmon on top of their food. This got them attuned to the sprinkles mean what is underneath is food. It helped immensely when I fully transitioned and any time I introduce new proteins they will at least try whatever I give them. My kitten went from kibble to raw overnight with no issues.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

When looking for dog food info, I'd suggest not only breed specific recommendations, but species specific too, so that no nutritional deficiencies build up over time.

Of course my research is about dogs. I didnt know @Fadeaway was speaking about ferrets and cats until their last reply. I assume thats what you mean by species. And I have looked for pitbulls specifically, however, most that have a pitbull feeding raw wants it to beef up super huge as its all about looks and my pit has more muscles then yours sort of stuff and I do not want that. So I have to weed out that stuff.

Have you considered switching to a high quality kibble in the meantime? (I think you mentioned being on low quality kibble now, right?)

He is back on a high quality high protein kibble but he refuses to eat that more then the low quality one. Which is why I said he needs a change and kibble isn't that. I have changed his kibble many times trying to find the one he likes and he has disliked them all. The only time I could get him to eat is when I was mixing low quality canned (high quality canned he still refused) and that was due to the shelter mixing his kibble with human soup. I finally got him on only kibble and won't go back to mixing in canned.

And when I say he won't eat it, I have to sit there saying "eat....no, eat.....no, eat.....no, eat....Chopper eat...come on eat..." and stand there while he eats it to make sure he eats enough as he will eat half and refuse the rest and do that every day thus not getting enough to eat and that is why I went to the low quality food to begin with, he will eat it easier. But he needs a change and I believe raw is it. He needs off of kibble.

Raw may be financially unobtainable right now, but with a little leg work you can find high quality kibble for cheap.

Right this second it is but once I get a job it isn't. I have already budgeted in raw up to the premade amount (the most expensive). I don't want him on kibble anymore or only on kibble. I am ok mixing kibble with raw but he needs a change. And many have said that raw took away some minor issues that Chopper also has (another reason for many food changes, trying to see if it was a food allergy) and so I want him only on raw for a bit.

I wouldn't of considered it if I didn't think it would be financially obtainable.

A tip from the vet who helped with the transition was to sprinkle freeze dried organ meat or salmon on top of their food

That's a good idea. I am buying freeze dried anyway in case I am ever in the hospital with him so I can totally do that. Though, I fear he may eat the freeze dried only if its not mixed in. Hmm, will need to see.

 

[Crow]

I started freeze dried without water for a few months. Not great internally but it was the only way they'd eat. Be sure to check the expiration date on the bags.

 

[Deadman]

I raised two Australian Shepherds on a raw diet. They both lived to 17 y.o.a. They ate goat heads in Afghanistan, fish in Sri Lanka, and pig knuckles in Poland. My current dog also eats raw.

Here is what I have learned about transitioning from kibble to raw:

• Feed your dog in a non-competitive environment. Many dogs will gulp their food when they are stressed or if they fear another dog will steal their food.
• The first few times you give your dog raw meaty bones make them large enough that they can't be swallowed whole. Some dogs are so surprised at the treat they will do their best to swallow it before someone can change their minds and take it away.
• Supplement meals with a couple tablespoons of yogurt, kefir, or other raw probiotic food for a couple of weeks. This'll help the gut flora and fauna adapt to the new food.
• Don't ever feed the cut 'marrow' or 'soup' bones you see in most grocery stores. They seem to be just the right size and shape to lodge in an overeager dog's throat.

I also suggest you stay away from the new urban raw dog food places with the outrageous prices. There are more and more places that sell bulk frozen raw dog food. I buy mine from Buddies Natural Pet Food but there since it is local you'll need to look for an equivalent.

As others have suggested 'ethnic' food stores can be a great source of things likes pig's knuckles and goat's feet. Even better is if you can still find a real butcher shop that still butchers meat. Make friends with them and get all the stuff that modern humans eschew eating.

If you live in a rural area you can even consider road kill and hunter's leftovers. I had a local cop who would call me whenever there was vehicle vs deer accident. Just leave the meat in the freezer for a few months to kill off any possible parasites.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Thank you @Deadman for all the advice!

I live just outside of Orlando. Opposite of rural. I found one "butcher" but I am not sure if they butcher there. I have been searching for good prices as premade is outragous.

Thank you so much again for all the tips!

 

[Deadman]

I find the best prices around here are for frozen blocks of chicken necks and backs and the blocks of ground fish. Both cost less than 'premium' kibble.

A good supplement to add to meals from time to time is old fashioned gelatin. Not the plant based kind but the ones made from hooves and lips ;P

If you have a pressure cooker you can also make bone broth for both you and your dogs. Save all the leftover bones from your regular meals in a plastic bag in the freezer. When you have enough throw them in the pot with a tablespoon or two of vinegar and cover with water. Pressure cook for an hour or two. The broth is full of minerals etc that are good for joint health. You can even use the bones a second time. Chicken bones will become soft enough that they crumble in your fingers.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Hmm @Deadman, I've never heard of bone broth for humans. That sounds awesome though. Give the dog the bones after. He already gets beef knuckle bones sold for dogs and any bones left over from our food. But I am excited to give him raw meaty bones. Turkey necks seem to be super popular. I watched a vlog of 2 pitbull owners and that seemed to be their favorote to use along with the normal knuckle bones, ribs bones, and chicken quarters de-skined and cut in half.

Yogurt will def be used. I love the probiotics in it. Eggs and crushed egg shells along with the meat, bones, and ground bone.

You can buy bone meal power (ground bone) at walmart for humans. Fresh is always best as its washed and cleaned but if it has nutrients for humans maybe the next best thing to ginding it myself of buying from a butcher?

I may invest in a meat grinder. Its a one time purchase that makes everything so much easier but not sure yet.