Betrayal And Deceit

[Melissa D]

Scenario:
I have PTSD and abandonment issues. I was also diagnosed with ADHD with some paranoid ideations. I have been and am currently under the care of a good psychiatrist and see a psychologist periodically. A year ago my husband chose to unburden his guilt and confess to a couple of affairs that he had in years prior. His reasoning for confessing was that he wanted our marriage to work but was not able live with the guilt if we were to have a good relationship.

I had struggled for the first half of our marriage with trust issues, which became one of the reasons I sought counseling. For years I disconnected my instincts from logic because I thought my instincts were warped from my childhood traumas. I also felt that I was irrational and emotionally dysfunctional. He knew my personal history and knew that I had issues when we began dating and he still entered into this relationship consciously. When he disclosed his indiscretions, other than the obvious feelings of betrayal and devastation, I realized that he had encouraged me, for years, to have a false self-image.Therefore causing me to work on problems with my counselor that were totally invalid when I had real issues to discuss. I felt violated on the most intimate level possible. I questioned my entire reality- felt that my life had been a sham. The relief and simultaneous rage of discovering that I was not crazy left me utterly speechless.

Because I also have ADHD with severe impulse control issues, I did not immediately leave him or kick him out. (We also have 2 children ages 10 and 14 who needed consideration.) He continued to express sincere remorse and has been seeing a counselor to address his own issues as to why this happened in the first place. I have gone through the grief stages, repeatedly, and am to a point now where I need realistic and unbiased advice.

He is making genuine efforts to "repent". I know that I will not ever forget what has happened, but am willing to forgive, with progress. There would be no second chances or redo's. I told him he must come completely clean once and for all if we are to put it behind us. He cannot decide to divulge more as time goes on otherwise I would never be able to move forward. My willingness to even consider restoration is that I see the humanity in him. I accept that he made a mistake.

Is forgiveness possible when I still want revenge? I would have never considered infidelity or ever been the type of person to seek revenge. Now it seems all bets are off. I know that a debt is not repaid with another debt. What are positive ways I can find peace and not be held captive by my anger?

 

[Britt.f7]

I went through some serious trust issues with my husband when our marriage was about to hit 10 years. I found out he had been drinking and looking at porn of young women(God I hope they were women). Until the crap hit the fan I had trusted him completely. 100 percent. He knew I had issues. The sneaking around, lies, are what effected me the most. We almost separated, but we counted on each other for financial support and for our children, who were 8 and 5 at the time. Then, as all the anger, hatred, etc. boiled through my blood, where normally I am a peaceful person, we found out he had cancer. I had to be the dutiful wife. It wasn't easy. I used my compassion that I would reserve for anyone, on him. I had to treat him like someone other then my husband, because I was still mad and distrustful.

To my knowledge, he has stopped drinking and looking at porn. I wouldn't care so much about the porn if he hadn't chosen to be so secretive about it. Both of them I found out on the same day. I went to confront him about the bottles I found hidden around the house, and he thought I found out about the porn so he confessed. Imagine his surprise when I told him it was the drinking. I know that what I found out might not be a big deal to other's but it was mammoth to me at the time.

Speaking of time, that's what it took. I didn't lower myself to revenge. Not that I didn't think of it, but that would be kind of cruel considering he was going through cancer treatments. Time.

 

[mamachick]

I understand the magnitude of your distrust completely and I dont have the answer as to how to forgive and find peace with feelings of revenge. My husband has passive agressive tendencies. He has done things to sabatoge me and my success. Then our daughter has serious control issues and has even assaulted me. She lies and undermines my gut feelings. She told me she accidently stopped payment on wrong check and that she meant to stop payment on rent check not the check she had written to me. I knew in my gut it was a lie. It was, and her father encouraged her to do so. I was injured and spent tens of thousands of dollars on her. I gave her money through grad school. When it finally came out that they had both been in on this, I was speechless. You see, I told her father what I suspected and he said "I cant believe you dont trust your own daughter, you dont trust anyone, you are f...ing crazy" All the while he knew what she had done.

Well, I wonder if she sent the nasty annonymous letter that I received a few years ago, or vandalized my car, or did any of the other number of things that interfered with me getting to work or have to look over my shoulder. They both say they are sorry but it is not genuine. They constantly repeat the same kind of things, busying me with unnecessary messes to clean up, just for shits and giggles I guess. Neither of them get counseling. Im the only one getting counseling.

I have no desire for revenge, maybe because it is a different kind of distrust and involves my daughter. I need validation in the worst way but understand that it is something that I will likely never get. Therefore, I can never reunite with my husband and dont even want my daughter in my home. This is only after years and years of behaviors similar to the example I gave.

Your situation is much different. I think if you can get to the point that you really forgive, there will not be a need for revenge. I know that it will be a process and will have to be on your own time. In my situation, they think saying sorry should just be enough-then do it again. Actually, it is this deceit that makes me not want to be alive. All of my SI comes with thoughts of how my own husband and child has treated me, just like the family I was born into. I did everything different and was a great mom and got the same as I was born with. Like you, this behavior is tied to my childhood and they know it well. They just dont care.

 

[Melissa D]

Thank you, both, for your feedback. I can certainly feel your empathy. It always seems to me that whenever I criticize someone for doing something wrong, shortly thereafter, I find myself in a similar or worse situation. As I ridiculed my husband for being dishonest, I felt myself wanting to withhold information from him. So he would know how it felt. This was so foreign to me because I have never been one to hold grudges or seek revenge. I guess my feelings scared me. Unfortunately I have never been very patient either. (Not one of my blessings.) Maybe this is one of my many lessons in life-to learn patience?

 

[mamachick]

Melissa, I just wanted to let you know that I retract my statement. I thought I do not want revenge with my daughter but am very hurt still and we are not talking. She has been so mean, deceitful, controlling, and sabatoging of my sanity for soooo long. At first thought, I did not think that I wanted revenge. This has been on going for 10 yrs. She is now 25. She once watched me go up and down a 4 story home looking for my skirt for over a week, when it was rolled up in her closet and she was hiding it because she cut it off. I resent this behavior and think I have never gotten a sincere apology. I have gotten to the point of saying some really mean things. I have done some things that would be considered very mean. I have lowered myself to her level and I dont like that. So I guess that is revenge.

I think what you said about being faced with wanting to do something similar is human nature. I am reading a really good book, the spiritual divovce, and it speaks about when some characteristic in our partner really angers us, it is the part of our selves that we have not come to accept that we have as well. I can see that in most situations. I think cheating is somehow out of that catagory though.
Sending thoughts and prayers your way. You are very strong.

 

[miss hartigan]

Hi Melissa, I hope you are doing better. Having been put through a similar situation, I would definitely seek revenge by cheating next time. It may sound childish, to get even, but having gone through what he put me through with his infidelities... it was hell and I don't think he had any idea what he'd put me through. So I think it's an educational tool and assessment tool as well. He'd always viewed infidelity as a hurdle and not a deal breaker. That although he stepped out his family meant the world to him.
So I figure, let's test that statement. Plus I figure we'd be going through the same crap together if I turned the tables on him.

 

[mamachick]

Melissa D,
just re-read posts of this thread. I hope things are going well for you. Sometimes I see different things are from different prospective when first read. I think you are very reasonable and most rational in understanding your ability to forgive him as he made human mistakes, if he progresses and makes it genuinely right. Trust is such a hard thing, and sometimes people do not understand that there are many ways to deceive, and some may be just as painful as infedelity.

My daughter still refuses any contact with me at this point. While that is painful for me, I also know that it is more of her control issues and that she can not handle the last conversation that we had when I told her the effects of the deceit in my home had on me and some other truths that she agreed with at the time. I am actually finding it to be a time of introspection without her constant criticism.

This time, with the right anti depressant, is helping me to get back on track as far as my distortions. Melissa I completely relate to you seeking counseling for distortions and later finding out they were not your distortions is a real screwing of the mind. Very similar here.
In the past few years, I have had the tendency to respond impulsively and with a sharp tongue at times. Sometimes, I do not realize how my words are coming across, or maybe I am being lied to about what or how I said at other times. I think both. Anyway, I recently got very angry about 2 different people in my life, both requesting my time and help desperately last monday and tuesday. Neither are healthy people in my life, but I am not the most healthy either, though I know beneath the surface, that I have the knowledge, feeling , ability, and desire for change-at times just riding things out and maybe depression has interfered. Anyway, both these people dropped the ball after asking me to schedule my time for them. It interfered with my sleep and I lost 2 days of my normal productivity. I was angry. I took a day to myself (3rd lost day) and did not answer my phone for anyone. I stayed in and felt and accepted my anger. Then I journaled alot. I remembered rules I had for myself when I was mentally healthy, and physically better as well.

I remembered that I had very low conflicts in my life-they were rare, and no drama. Any drama was on the outer circle, like 2 sisters in conflict that I heard about but did not get involved. I remembered that while honesty is very important and I hold high value for it, and considered myself a very assertive person. I dealt with people in 2 ways. Those who were emotionally safe, who are basically healthy people who are able to take responsibility-I would be extremely truthful with about my feelings and thought related to our relationship. I was forthcoming. First of all, I would define what was expected when making a committment, but if an issue came up, I would say, EX:
Are you certain you are available for lunch on this date, because I have noticed that you cancelled at the last minute the last 3 times. If there is a chance that you may need to cancel at the last minute, I would prefer to just wait for a calmer time in your life, etc. Sometimes people get caught up and dont realize their behavior or think its not that inconvenient for the other person. Even healthy people have faults (like thinking their time is more valuable). Then there was the other type of person, that is more of a train wreck, and can never be quiet about their problems long enough to listen to what you are saying, or they want to argue if they do here it, or get on the phone and drag in another person for triangulation. I learned to accept the anger, feel it, and then take my power back. I would avoid contact if necessary, but never get into words with them. I would not address the issue in most cases, and just make myself unavailable, having learned a lesson and remaining peaceful. At times, there was that person who would say-you dont return my calls or something direct. Even so, I would generally skip directness, and if I did, I stuck to the effects on me, not their bad behavior.

My post has more to do with trusting ourselves, our gut feelings, validating our feelings, and differentiating our distortions or hi jacked perceptions, and more than deceit itself. Yet it felt right to post this here because I think that when we have a partner who has deceived us, or children, siblings, parents, etc who have played mind games, we are vulnerable to the rest of the world in choosing friends and doing for other family members, and being taken advantage of. So I realized what I need to do to take power back gracefully , and am practicing it and have a big note to remind me.

Miss hartigan, I understand your feelings for revenge-all too well. I recently dated and ended a short relationship. While he didnt cheat, he did some things I think were worse for me. I felt full of revenge, and acted upon it a little bit. IMHO-the problem for me is this, we often suffer problems with self esteem, and revenge will be further damaging to our self esteem. Most of us want to be treated good and valued, and are willing to do that for others, Many of us, I know, that I have much to re-learn to be happy and safe again. If you value fidelity in a relationship, and you are faithful to your partner, you are living with integrity in that area of life. If he cheats, he has hurt you, he has damaged your trust, and you have every need and right to grieve and heal the trust lost and decide if it can be repaired. But if you value fidelity, and you cheat, you are not living with integrity, and ultimately, IMHO, I think damaging the self in the long run. I know at first I would fantacize about revenge, but am wanting the return of self esteem and I really want to live with Integrity. That is something that I once had and never thought it could be taken away or lost. I did not realize how far down on could fall with certain trauma's. Now I know.

 

[Melissa D]

"miss hartigan, post: 675169, member: 26240"]Hi Melissa, I hope you are doing better...."

Miss Hartigan, "I totally hear what you are saying about revenge as education." I will tell you a little story.

I have a male friend, from childhood, who has been on both sides of the infidelity fence. In my "hours of darkness" I asked for his perspective, not advice. I wanted to know how he dealt with his emotions after being cheated on but also why he cheated, how it impacted him, and his thought processes when he was doing it. for several months we talked and he explained while I asked more questions. As time advanced, I could sense that he wanted more from me than I was offering but I was not sure exactly what it was that he was looking for, from me. I personally had no sexual or emotional attraction toward him so, in my mind, I felt I had the upper hand in the situation. He basically told me that he would love "more" but was not capable of any type of lasting relationship and would be interested in allowing me to use him as a "tool" for revenge. Subversively, just have a physical relationship, on the side, for as long as I wanted.

At first glance, (especially with my over-impulsive tendencies), I thought this would be the perfect solution to my problem. So we began to talk a lot more, a lot more seductively, exchanged some erotic messages, met a couple of times for face-time but no activity. The closer and closer I got to sealing the deal, the more analytically I thought about the situation. What was I doing? Did I really want to put myself through this? Did I want to give this person something to hold over me, connect to me? Risk the chance of my husband not returning the favor of forgiveness? Did I want to lower myself to my husbands standards?? Cold feet, right?

I purposely left myself open to discovery. My husband has access to my facebook and email, I don't delete my texts. I was not trying to hide anything. If my husband was going to suspect anything the evidence was there for him to see. I didn't dodge phone calls or messages, I took them out in the open. I wanted my husband to see what I was doing and know how it felt to not have a clear picture of what was happening. I wanted him to question me, accuse me, really lose sleep at night.

What I ultimately realized is that if I followed through with it, revenge would not actually be what I was serving. I was not cheating for the same reasons my husband cheated. It could not evoke the same outcomes because the situations were entirely different. My husband was genuinely attracted to and pursued his lust object and I was/ am not attracted to this person. He was lacking something personally, not in our relationship, but too young and ignorant to understand that he didn't know what he didn't know. While I am old enough to know exactly what I am doing and am not blindly being lead astray. His person was not connected in any way to us and had no reason to cross paths with us in the future nor be concerned with how their actions would affect his family. My "friend" is not a complete stranger to my family and would not be able to walk away sight unseen forever more.

The incident that invoked his unburdening was also off the radar but triggered his conscience to stop what he was doing, confess and repent. (This may be rationalizing) I really think that after he had time to realize what he did, he truly regretted his misstep from years earlier and the awful behavior he exhibited following. When he found himself blindly walking the same road, he was smart enough to recognize it the second time around. Even though I was/ am greatly hurt by the admission, I admire his courage for being honest with me about something he had been deceiving me about for so long. He knew that I would never discover the truth, that he had gotten away with it. He also knew the truth was the thing standing between him and the love he truly needed. The truth, as simple and complex as it is, was what kept him from his "promise land". He took the risk of destroying everything, everything that was built on a false foundation, to reach for what he finally believe he deserved.

So, it has been 2 years and 8 months since the "Great Confession". We are still together, have had serious knockdown drag-out fights, huge blow-outs.There were times when it felt that the only resolution was to walk away but we are still here, still fighting for each other. The recovery process has been incredibly hard. I understand now why most couples split up. After my own "educational" experience, I now know that I am capable of committing the same crimes of passion. Who am I to impose death of our marriage on us when I very easily and almost did commit the same crime?

So to answer your post, Yes, revenge can be educational but to whom is the lesson given?