CBT is kind of gaslighty

Eagle3

MyPTSD Pro
Mindfulness is what saved me, that and clinical hypnosis. Thank god I found a T who is....not mainstream and specializes in PTSD for the last 40 years. He learned other modalities in addition to CBT, but he's ecclectic enough to have many other tools in the toolbox.
 

Survivor3

MyPTSD Pro
I just wanted to share to share some space for other people who may be cbt critical. I often times get the impression with cbt type therapy that if it didn’t work we are asked to hold personal responsibility. Like we didn’t do the work we didn’t do the homework it’s our fault we’re not doing it right.

I’m seeing online a lot of up and coming therapist who are also critical of cbt. There seems to be a turning of the tide with it.

it makes perfect sense that it’s not for everyone. Antidepressants aren’t, emdr isn’t, so why is cbt (in the uk) the go to and no other options are given. It doesn’t make sense. Well it makes sense when it’s a set amount of sessions and therefore cheap but, for everyone? It just can’t be.
my experience of CBT therapists was terrible and I've had it said to me by certain support workers how it's a short term band aid and doesn't address a lot of core issues. If it works for some people then that's great though.
 

Rani G2

MyPTSD Pro
t makes perfect sense that it’s not for everyone. Antidepressants aren’t, emdr isn’t, so why is cbt (in the uk) the go to and no other options are given. It doesn’t make sense. Well it makes sense when it’s a set amount of sessions and therefore cheap but, for everyone? It just can’t be.

Counselling psychology being a discipline, I understand why this needs to be questioned. You might find this
criticalpsychotherapy interesting or Ian Parker’s work (UK).
 
The first therapist who said he did CBT with me actually ... did not do CBT. I don't know what it was, but it wasn't CBT, and it didn't work. Real CBT, once I got it, helped me assess whether my mental state was realistic or not, but it did nothing to address the root of the problem, which was trauma.

There are plenty of other modalities that therapists can use if someone is resistant to CBT. Only poor therapists insist on a single modality.
 
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DharmaGirl

MyPTSD Pro
The more I read, the more I realize that I was ready to accept it was my fault the therapy wasn't working. I think as someone with complex trauma I was more than eager to blame myself. I should have known better. My severe back pain turned out to be cancer, but I had been convinced I was a psych case. I had leftover back pain but I needed a fusion that the neurosurgeon didn't do, after I had it I'm like normal. If I am ready to accept medical doctors can do it, I should be ready to accept psychologists will do it. I'm so glad you posted this @NoWhereKnowWhere, it got me thinking and shoved me into another level of healing.
 

EvenStrongerNow

MyPTSD Pro
I think it’s....telling....that you only believe people of color can be marginalized. Women are by default the “other” in society. This is evidenced by so many things, of which the medical industry alone is a huge issue in this realm.
It's not that I don't believe women can be oppressed . . . it's that I believe that white women will never know or experience the monstrosity of brutality and oppression that Black and Brown women wake up to every single day of their lives, cradle to grave.
 

Friday

Moderator
white women will never know or experience the monstrosity of brutality and oppression that Black and Brown women wake up to every single day of their lives, cradle to grave
Unless, you know, you’re a white woman in Africa, the Middle East, India, Asia, Pacific Islands, or South America... or the wrong shade of white (or cheekbone shape, nodding at the Sami) in places like Scandinavia & Russia. And in some of those places brutality against women, and/or racist hate crimes aren’t only NOT illegal (as they are in most of North America & Europe), but codified into law -and taught in schools, on the street, day in and day out- as the correct behaviour.

And that’s before even touching thing like being a white Muslim woman (Circassian, ethnic Albanian, etc.) in the west, or severely deformed/disabled, or any of the other ways people are marginalised.

World Wide Forum.

Which includes not only the ‘institutionalized monstrosity of brutality and oppression’ of being a minority -or a woman- going about their normal lives... but being a PTSD forum, also those who have been victims of or lived with human trafficking, fought or worked in wars/genocides, lived through wars/genocides, rape camps, refugee camps, secret police, etc.
All of those are part of my trauma history, but you don’t see much of that in the States. One DOES see cabs, and anyone who takes cabs knows how freaking difficult it can be if there’s something “wrong” about you. Race, scariness factor, wrong neighborhood, looking too poor to pay, whatever.

When I last lived in Tehran the penalty for not exiting a cab fast enough if a man entered, because shared cabs are a thing, much like busses here, people enter/exit with other people in them... was to be arrested, driven out to the edge of town, gang raped by the police, stripped mostly naked, and forced to walk home in shame. Anyone who tried to offer you any assistance would be arrested -not then, necessarily, but if anyone reported it, at any time- or simply beat to death. The safest thing would be to participate in the humiliation (throw something, assault them yourself, etc.) but most people, even if you disgust them or they hate themselves for not acting, just try not to look. But at least in Iran I could take a cab -as long as I was always willing to give up my seat, and move to the back of the queue on the street- and, like most places the people themselves are lovely even if the laws are horrific. There were a lot of places I lived it wasn’t safe to take a cab, full stop. Either because K&R was big business, or because getting gang raped to death was local sport.

Every time I get grumpy at an über driver or cabbie stateside, I just try and remember how much worse my problems used to be, with cabs.

I know the cross-cultural aspect of a world wide forum can be a bit brain bending. What makes a person invisible -or untouchable- in one place, marginalizes them in another.
 
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EvenStrongerNow

MyPTSD Pro
Unless, you know, you’re a white woman in Africa, the Middle East, India, Asia, Pacific Islands, or South America... or the wrong shade of white (or cheekbone shape, nodding at the Sami) in places like Scandinavia & Russia. And in some of those places brutality against women, and/or racist hate crimes aren’t only NOT illegal (as they are in most of North America & Europe), but codified into law -and taught in schools, on the street, day in and day out- as the correct behaviour.

And that’s before even touching thing like being a white Muslim woman (Circassian, ethnic Albanian, etc.) in the west, or severely deformed/disabled, or any of the other ways people are marginalised.

World Wide Forum.

Which includes not only the ‘institutionalized monstrosity of brutality and oppression’ of being a minority -or a woman- going about their normal lives... but being a PTSD forum, also those who have been victims of or lived with human trafficking, fought or worked in wars/genocides, lived through wars/genocides, rape camps, refugee camps, secret police, etc.
All of those are part of my trauma history, but you don’t see much of that in the States. One DOES see cabs, and anyone who takes cabs knows how freaking difficult it can be if there’s something “wrong” about you. Race, scariness factor, wrong neighborhood, looking too poor to pay, whatever.

When I last lived in Tehran the penalty for not exiting a cab fast enough if a man entered, because shared cabs are a thing, much like busses here, people enter/exit with other people in them... was to be arrested, driven out to the edge of town, gang raped by the police, stripped mostly naked, and forced to walk home in shame. Anyone who tried to offer you any assistance would be arrested -not then, necessarily, but if anyone reported it, at any time- or simply beat to death. The safest thing would be to participate in the humiliation (throw something, assault them yourself, etc.) but most people, even if you disgust them or they hate themselves for not acting, just try not to look. But at least in Iran I could take a cab -as long as I was always willing to give up my seat, and move to the back of the queue on the street- and, like most places the people themselves are lovely even if the laws are horrific. There were a lot of places I lived it wasn’t safe to take a cab, full stop. Either because K&R was big business, or because getting gang raped to death was local sport.

Every time I get grumpy at an über driver or cabbie stateside, I just try and remember how much worse my problems used to be, with cabs.

I know the cross-cultural aspect of a world wide forum can be a bit brain bending. What makes a person invisible -or untouchable- in one place, marginalizes them in another.
I don't understand what the point of this is. It really feels like you want to minimize the experience of women who aren't white based on some imagination of someone minimizing the oppressive experience of white women.

If you follow my first comments (though a misinterpretation of the race of the OP), it was responding to the racial disparities in therapy, and sought to validate a woman experiencing it.

My next comment realized my misinterpretation along with sharing a personal experience to validate the woman experiencing a gas lighty feeling from a particular therapy modality.

My final comment was intended to deny the assessment of another poster that I didn't believe women can be oppressed because that was never even implied.

Simply acknowledging the oppressive experience of Black and Brown women in this life does not negate the oppressive experience of white women. Being Black and Brown plus being a woman does present a doubly oppressive existence. There is exhaustive proof of this. Do I need to provide that?

Your replies don't follow logic and they don't make sense to me. What is it that you are trying to say to me specifically because it just feels like you're talking at me. I know you're a moderator but gee whiz.
 

Friday

Moderator
I don't understand what the point of this is.
My point is that this is a worldwide forum.

In your country black or brown women may be marginalised. In other countries, other races are marginalised, whilst black or brown women are not.


Simply acknowledging the oppressive experience of Black and Brown women in this life does not negate the oppressive experience of white women.
That’s good to hear. As what you apparently mistyped was
I believe that white women will never know or experience the monstrosity of brutality and oppression that Black and Brown women wake up to every single day of their lives, cradle to grave.

***
I would also suggest that if we wish to continue the discussion of the effect of race/creed/religion/etc. on seeking therapy? That a new thread should be started.
 
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Mee

MyPTSD Pro
Cbt is the only nhs offered ptsd treatment in my area. It’s also not available to patients who have experienced suicidal ideation in the last twelve or maybe 24 months (I cannot remember- I was looking at this a while ago ) . It’s also not recommended for some trauma sufferers. I find it not useful to be told for example ‘not all men’ and when I did have a few weeks of CBT it sent my symptoms out of control and increased suicidal thoughts.
In MY experience most people have problematic behaviour.

I think looking at the recent study released showing the average woman experiences 37 instances of violence - Then - cbt telling us we are catastrophising in being cautious is unfair not just emotionally but statistically. While 37 might be few in the numbers of people we meet - the instances we’ve had or fear having are significant enough to call ‘caution’ ( as opposed to belief all people WILL cause harm ) difficult. If the people who have caused you harm are those close to you multiple instances of - family. Friends . Partners - then it is common sense.
I also feel that it can be gaslightly and patriarchal to focus the cbt approach to all trauma recovery.
 
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