Comparisons, "logic".

[Abstract]

I was reading something on here today and that combined with my recent threads has led me to a few partial realisations or thoughts/questions.

In many ways I have managed to appear outwardly very functional in my life by evaluating absolutely everything through a filter to check its possible outward validity or "normality" or if it would be what others expected. Most of my life that was entirely unconscious and automatic. To the extent that in therapy I would be saying what I should be thinking or feeling without even realising I was doing it. Its hard to explain.

I did not even know what I really thought or felt and everything felt like automatic survival and part of that survival was about hiding who I was.

Slowly I started realising the underground voices and thoughts and feelings. It was distressing to start realising how dysfunctional I was underneath when I had believed my own "lies". I still have this happen. More and more layers of it surface and have done so for years an it is always disorientating.

That strong connection to logic and outside evaluation have allowed me to appear to be semi ok in relationships and business relationships. Keeping the cost mostly to me. Then everything implodes. And that has always ended up very messy with me having breakdown after breakdown, cyclically.

Connecting to what I really feel and think has been key to control my long term very self destructive behaviour and to try to function in the world.

But that outside self also seems to act a means of coping in making me Ok by denying the rest. Take it away and I fall apart in a different way.

:peeking:
But the latest possible awareness about this is that I think that evaluating is part of what is keeping me stuck. Just accepting my experiences or feelings or reality to do with PTSD and the experiences that caused it (want to say "liar, liar") is very very difficult without the evaluating, analysing for legitimacy/"normality" aspect of my functioning kicking in and then setting off all kinds of possible denial, self abuse and other internal crazy stuff. The combination of all these result in the opposite of clarity or logic. It feels like a violent internal emotional storm and chaos with many different things pushing and pulling me around.

:peeking:

I was not allowed my own thoughts, feelings or experiences and did not feel I had ownership over my body either in certain ways. I have said before that I did not feel I was allowed to be a person in some respects. A person is a separate entity. I mean this mostly on an emotional level. I think some of this is still having an impact on me.

If I am really honest this evaluating side of me even kicks in when I look at others but it is different as my strong empathic and understanding side moderates and normalises it when it comes to others. I mostly see things in very balanced way with other people.

In non emotional and mental health issues I am an individualist and happy to have my own path and opinion and respect that in others. When it comes to my internal space it is very different.

In many ways all this allows my relationships with others to be less problematic for them and that is obviously helpful for me too but in other ways I think these long term coping mechanisms are backfiring in my present life and fuelling more complex stuff.

 

[Pencil]

It all makes perfect sense. You are always SO cerebral, SO careful, SO living in your head - which is typical of PTSD. But our emotions simply won't be denied. This is your most revealing post to date, and I feel I have to tiptoe ... so I won't say too much ...

Perhaps you'll even start a diary in due time ;)

 

[Jacnic]

Hang in there, Abstract!

It is a bumpy ride. Head v's heart is complicated and will take time.

 

[Mayday]

Just accepting my experiences or feelings or reality to do with PTSD and the experiences that caused it (want to say "liar, liar") is very very difficult without the evaluating, analysing for legitimacy/"normality" aspect of my functioning kicking in and then setting off all kinds of possible denial, self abuse and other internal crazy stuff

I think I know what you mean here, but I'm not entirely sure. But I am also in a similar position, from what I gather from your previous posts, of also not having access to enough of my memories to satisfy my need for "proof", in regards to PTSD, so I seem to cycle through acceptance and self denial quite rapidly.

Both states can trigger massive bouts of "internal crazy stuff" and self abuse. It's very confusing.

 

[Abstract]

... SO cerebral, SO careful, SO living in your head .... But our emotions simply won't be denied. This is your most revealing post to date, and I feel I have to tiptoe ...
Perhaps you'll even start a diary in due time ;)

Its funny Pencil as I have thought of myself as an emotional person (if logical) for most of my life. But the emotions I felt were only for and relating to others. When it came to mine that was another thing entirely. I was not aware of how much I relied on fact or other things to give me some sense of stability.

Sorry you feel you have to tiptoe! :oops: I actually think its more than just my emotions. Its my self as a whole. Thoughts, experiences, emotions. Its obviously enormously better than it used to be but possibly far from ideal.

Yes, I am getting rather brave aren't I? Comparatively speaking of course. The fact that people so bravely share their experiences and thoughts so well on here when they have gone through so much is so impressive to me. And highlights just how brave I am not. Comparisons maybe? ;)

Start a diary! :eek::sick::wideeyed:

 

[Abstract]

take time.

Thanks Janic. :)

I think I know what you mean here, but I'm not entirely sure. But I am also in a similar position, from what I gather from your previous posts, of also not having access to enough of my memories to satisfy my need for "proof", in regards to PTSD, so I seem to cycle through acceptance and self denial quite rapidly.

Both states can trigger massive bouts of "internal crazy stuff" and self abuse...

Thanks Mayday! I have definitely related to some of what you have discussed before.

The enough access to memories is a tricky one. It varies a bit. A big section of time is a total blank and I have partial flashbacks and intrusive stuff that seems to relate to that time but is limited in information. There is some anecdotal information that supports some of it but it vague. ***It is as close to not remembering anything at all as one can get without it being 100% so. This is mostly what I discussed with you before. I think you maybe have more memory than I have.

Then there is other stuff that I remember some of but anything more significant *** and related I don't have any clear memory of at all. Just some slivers and unreal feelings.

I have one thing I remember clearly which is small but still seems to have affected me from when I was around 11 and 13. I think I remember because it happened to my sister too and I needed to protect her after.

And then I have a handful of stuff that is weird. There are no memories and there was no emotion up until about 3 years ago. When I say no memories I mean no visual or any other sensory information. What I do have is the equivalent of something written down like a label. Its hard to explain. Between these and me there is a solid metal door and never once since they have happened have I gone behind that door. Immediately after they happen I don't "think" of them again. Wandering towards it has me bounce off. I say never but that is not totally true. I went behind one for about a minute in T once in the trauma therapy I went for a year or so ago. And my world changed in many ways after completely within 2 hours of doing that.

But none of this is real. At closest it feels like it happened to someone else. It is surreal at closest. Or a story in a book. Most of my life a slightly boring one. A list of groceries maybe. Bullying at work brought with it many intense feelings but these things ... nothing. Now there is emotion that comes when I go anywhere near but it is still vague and as I say they are only little black and white labels and they are not memories.

There are other things but I dont believe they traumatised me. Not that I believe anything traumatised me most of the time. :rolleyes:

The only thing I have any sense of knowing in a 3 dimension way relates to the stuff at 11 and 13 with my sister. Its also the only thing that was integrated into how I reacted to my environment over my life. I mean that in terms of how I responded to things or thoughts of things and that being influenced by the experiences. The rest if they are real were sectioned off so completely that they had no seepage that I could tell in many ways. There is a possibility that that isn't true though.

But it is the stuff I marked *** that seems to particularly drive me crazy. For many reasons. And with these I think I relate a lot to some of what you have have described.

Even with these I suspect there was nothing awful if I can describe it that way. Noone broke my bones and noone held a gun to my head or a knife to my throat. I believe.

When feeling a little clearer and calmer about this I think that I was probably just very inclined to dissociate and that because of the tendency these things held on. Protecting but keeping it all on dry ice too. That what complicates all this for me are personality issues. Things that in many ways helped me function in life but backfire when trying to deal with the original experiences.

Thanks for sharing and I am sorry you have crazy, self abusing stuff too (awful) and do agree that not having clear memories or partially integrated ones certainly does not help any of this at all at all!!!!

 

[Abstract]

Feeling very over exposed after my first posts and like a true hyperchondriac. But it seems have continued regardless. Interesting...

 

[Abstract]

Feel compelled to say that they are all small things. Or possibly never happened.

 

[Pencil]

as an emotional person (if logical) for most of my life. But the emotions I felt were only for and relating to others. When it came to mine that was another thing entirely. I was not aware of how much I relied on fact or other things to give me some sense of stability.

You are extremely sensitive to others, which is an amazing quality. I've always liked the way YOU seem to tiptoe around the forum and respond very sensitively to others, without drawing attention to yourself.

When I first started on this forum I was frantic, hectic and all over the show. You very diplomatically guided me, and also asked questions in such a way that I calmed down and focused on the issues that mattered. You really pay attention to people.

So I don't feel I have to tiptoe because it might anger or upset you, I feel I have to tiptoe, or want to tiptoe, in order to respond to you with the same sensitivity. You, of all people, should know how I can put my foot in it :p

So, I don't think you are unemotional - just that you protect yourself by being highly analytical. But I get the fact that you may be less analytical and clear when it comes to your own stuff.

they are all small things. Or possibly never happened.

Yeah, right. So you are here for the fun?

or a knife to my throat

A crazy asshole (who later committed suicide) once held a knife to my throat. It was not in any way one of the more traumatic things that happened to me. When I think about it today I just shake my head and go 'Shhheeesshhhh, crazy asshole!'. So don't look at thing as being on a scale, with values and validity assigned to them. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks Pencil. :hug: If Ok. Touched.

 

[Abstract]

Convinced I am a total fraud. And to such an extent that it makes me feel sick to my stomach.

 

[p-no]

In many ways I have managed to appear outwardly very functional in my life by evaluating absolutely everything through a filter to check its possible outward validity or "normality" or if it would be what others expected. Most of my life that was entirely unconscious and automatic. To the extent that in therapy I would be saying what I should be thinking or feeling without even realising I was doing it.

I can so relate. Or rather: this is me. It's not an intentional hiding behind a mask, or a set of different masks, it's just who I have become by -- I call this -- "stockholming". I seem to have been viewing everyone around me to be an abuser, so rather identify their wants immediately and give what they "ask", to be safe, to be left in peace (literally). I am who people want me to be (who they want me to be, that being determined by my analyses) -- and to a certain extent, that is not the real me. I don't have a stable core, it seems. Unfortunately, that "stockholming" now is part of my core. I think, it is so entwined in "me" (I refer to this often as "burnt into my cells" (i.e. can not be erased, at least not easily at all)). This is not all bad, but it is not the real me either.

All I can say is, I have started finding the real me, by finding and staying close to my inner child. My life has become about her, as if I were a mother to a roughly 2-year old. When I meet a potential partner, despite all the thoughts I have, the analyses, etc., I ask myself (among others): If I had a live 2-year old daughter at home, would I get together with this person? Would I bring them home? Would I let them babysit her?

Coming back to "me", my core that has not developed because of the manifold abuse, has me find my self more -- and at the same time, realize more, how much of me is not the real me. Which makes me so sad that I have no words for it.

What I'm trying to say by sharing this with you, Abstract, is: You're there and you can find your self and it's worth it, I find, and often makes me feel very special when I look at my real self.

And regarding your other post where you said that you have always felt to be an emotional person... You may well be that emotional person. I am. I have developed this very means of survival because I had to protect my emotional core. If I didn't manage my emotions by using my "stockholming", I would have died. The abuse would have killed me, literally. I am still protecting that emotional core that is so fragile. And I have to, too. When people look at me they see a roughly 40-year old who seems all functional, competent, managing well. My core is two years old though, and people do not see that. So, I have to protect it, as if I had a little girl with me at all times.

You're not a fraud, dear Abstract.