Dark Night Of The Soul?

[AzureMind]

Hey Guys, I'm warning you now, this is a looooong one.....so if you're into this put on a pot of the brown stuff :coffee: lol

I've been doing some research on a topic called the "Dark Night of the Soul".....it seemed very poignant to me, (however confusing it all was at the time! :confused: lol) in that most of the symptoms that I was reading was really resenating with me, almost "eerily" so: For instance, "having an existential crisis, or meltdown": that one is HUGE for me; It's like I've lost the value in my own life, like all of a sudden, all the meaning just packed it's bags, and left me with the rent, heat, and grocery bills.....:cry: I just didn't know what to do, or where to go, because my Ego was DYING ON ME!!!! The very lense I looked out of, and experienced life through!!! :eek: lol

I could rattle off all the symptoms but you could just google the topic "Dark Night of the Soul Symptoms". Basically, my reason for bringing this up is to ask, if you guys are aware of this, and or heard of this, and if you believe you are experiencing this? I've felt that I was surrounded in darkness for a LONG time, like 16 years of my 22 years, and it felt like I was in a fog, unclear, and I've meditated for quite a while trying to reach a state of mind that would transcend my egos the "I or consicous persona" of the Ego, Superego, and Id freudian triad, and the HELL that went along with it....:mad:

I learned that the states and experiences we go through are accumulated by the ego, and then defense mechanisms are held in place to fortify the ego against future pain.....sounds familiar right? However well the ego maybe doing it's job, it can begin to cause the TOTAL person pain, by keeping us within it's grasp by reliving, and reviewing the traumas, and the accumulation of negative programming, thoughts, and emotions we have been subconciously devouring, and regurgitating :sick: from all sources of life for years....is it then any wonder why we feel like there "No Escape?" :O_o: Some people begin to think that all there is to life is the "Ego, and reparing it" but that's not true....this construct can't be repaired....it's just not real....the ego alone, (though gives us an anchoring point, and means of living our lives through) keeps us in a cycle of pain....through subjective experience, are subject to positive, and negative emotions, and once the ego has realized it's "Point of Redundancy" it begins to distribute pain to the person trapped with in it.....:cry:

So now life sucks....and HARD....so what do we do? We've taken pills, we've seen different shrinks, we've done it all....but there's still something more.....the soul....Well, what if the "True" soul of the person (which is regarded as the infinite, and supreme aspect of the human being which is believed to encompass the small ego) were to emerge from you and reclaim it's seat of power? What if the ego was causing you pain, by subjecting you to a way of being that kept you trapped, within it's desire for control over your actions to sate it's own desire for power?...Thus the "Point of Redundancy of the Ego" is achieved and the "Dark Night of the Soul" is introduced....

The ego begins to sense it's own futility, and irrelevance and the death of the suffering aspect of yourself (the ego) has begun to fade away....if fully disolved, the "True Self/Soul" emerges and you begin your way to feeling a happiness you haven't in years, or could ever dream of....

Afterall the pain that I felt by dwelling/indulging my ego, (entertaining the emotions that would never, EVER fade because they were brought about by experiencing REAL, and LEGITAMATE trauma) it had come to a point where it eclipsed my "True Self" and swallowing me whole, little bit, by little bit, and it was suddenly time to let all the hurt and pain go....
I realized that I was not at fault, and not the one who made the mistake, but that it was an experience I had to undergo to learn about others in this life time....I questioned....."Why?! Why would I have to go through this?! Why couldn't I have been happy?! Is this ALL a lie?!" and then nothing.....

I got still, and waited in the pain, waited in the emotional isolation and rage, I waited in the darkness of my mind, and I waited in the dersire to DESTROY myself, to rid myself of the pain, that hit me with torrents of emotional, mental, and physical pain :mad:....I had felt my 22 year old being....my limits, I then released my bitterness, and everything that my ego held that linked me to that past....then, suddenly wisdom started flowing into me from parts unknown.....it addressed me as "I".

"I am going through this because to learn happiness, true happiness, true regret, and pain must be felt....I am becoming stronger now, and that hurt and pain will leave me when I am ready to leave it, and place it where it belongs....in the trash...the "I" that experienced that was a "Shell" that needed to learn about these experiences....the shell that I carry with me has outlived it's usefulness, and must go." I cried....I cried hard....I felt happiness fill me up...more warm than anything I felt from another person...it was legitimate love....love for myself...love I thought I could produce.....

I'm not completely there yet guys, but I feel GOOD today.....:) I feel so close to the feeling of "rebirth" that I can openly speak to people, but I have new challenges I have to face, but I realize that they too, have their place, and time to fade as well....:)

I hope that maybe you all are recognizing the "Dark Night of the Soul" for yourselves.....mind you, this for me was the MOST EXCRUTIATING PAIN I'VE EVER FELT, but I'm still here, and I won't give up, and for the first time in YEARS....I feel GOOD. :) I hope you ALL will/and do as well!!

 

[Tinyflame]

Hi AzureMind, yes I'm pretty familiar with it, in fact spent about 20+ years waiting to get my hands on the exact poem (written work). I did, in 2006, and was quite disappointed because it was so short and it seemed (felt) as if I was living it- had it fact lived it before already- and therefore more accurately described how I felt but did not say where to go from there!

In a poorly-expressed layman's opinion, many different sources do concur with the 3-in-1 approach: that (in different words) we are motivated by a will-to-power, a will-to-pleasure, and a will-to-meaning. That is, it is in the 'stripping' of the 1st two (a lack of satisfaction or emphasis on them or a motivation from them), that we seek more-so the 3rd. But that this also involves really bottoming-out, so to speak: coming to a point where all we knew or relied on or 'controlled' is taken away: total vulnerability and powerlessness and acceptance of that which we do not and cannot control, that shapes us into a 'new person', of sorts. And that these 'dark nights' occur throughout our lives.
Of course, a very 'thumbnail' description but ultimately that only by losing (and giving up) everything we are sure of and have pre-conceived, that in that lies the gain. -The paradox of it.
The same ~meaning that when we feel most alone we are least (so).

Forgive me if (because) I have missed much- have not read it for years, JMHO.
I am glad it helps to bring you some comfort and meaning.
Peace to you. :)

 

[bruiser]

Yo Azure,

I saw the post you made on this thread: "Do I Dissociate By Choice And Has Dissociation When I Was Little Shut Off My Feelings Forever?".

What you said rings very true with me, more so than with a lot of the other stuff on here - it is difficult to relate to women who have had abusive partners, or children who were sexually abused, for I'm not in an abusive relationship and I have no very serious childhood trauma. However, everything you said in your post is exactly as it is with me - especially the control over when I dissociate (although it still happens outside of my own volition), and the ability to 'edit' - essentially I recreate myself and aspects of the world around me.

Basically I want to not do this. Dissociating is useless unless it protects you from real trauma as it is happening - if it continues afterwards, then I believe it is akin to keeping yourself ignorant, I think the subconscience mind can only damage the conscience mind by doing this for prolonged periods of time. I believe your fight or flight reasoning is the cause, but it offers no solution, partly because the dissociation (flight reaction) happens involuntarily, but mainly because I don't know how to fight? A straight forward 1v1 with a human attacker, which offers obvious choices, is very rarely the situation causing the emotional overload. Catharsis is unattainable for me at present, and for as long as I can remember, I only dissociate - run - from negative emotion, I don't know what actually dealing with it and purging it is. Anger is the worst for me because its expression through violence or shouting demonstrates lack of control, and is shameful. My fear is that people will look at me with genuine fear, as though I'm some kind of psychopath, and with behavioural habits like mine (dissociating, avoiding people to hide it, this is very circular), how can I blame them?

I don't see a therapist and I'm not on any medication, I haven't been diagnosed with anything, but my very frequent dissociation that I have little control over, or I sometimes give into because I need the relief (like an addiction?) is very real. I believe I have been this way for several years now, and it has only been exaserbated recently by problems with members of my family. Don't really know where to go from here - I've been steadily ignoring my responsibilities, I need to fix this. How can the dark night of the soul help me when I'm in the middle of it?

 

[Reclusive]

There's a lot of references to similar spiritual journeys in many different cultures. If I weren't so frazzled I could give you more specific examples. It's kinda like... in order to move past the pain, you have to feel it - all of it - thoroughly before it can move on, which I think is true in some cases. Also, sometimes the Ego self-identifies itself by the pain and past that it has experienced and sometimes we need to let go of our traumas-as-identities.

I suffered severe workplace bullying for 7 years and I used to go for a walk with a coworker at about 2pm every day. We called it the Dark Tea Time of the Soul - but it was our chance to get away from the office and coworkers and if we were having a really bad day we would scream our heads off behind the grocery store where we were never aware of bothering anyone.

 

[AzureMind]

thanks Junebug...it's helped me to at least understand the experience, and what is is really for....knowing that someone has gone through this....this is a new and I'd like to talk more about this with you seeing how you have knowledge about this....I have no clue where I am right now in the midst of this, and I'll need all the back up I can get....:) many thanks!! =)

Bruiser, the Dark Night of the Soul is meant for the person to be brought to the awareness that their pattern, and behaviors they engage in aren't as effective as they believe they are, and must be "purged" as Junebug so eloquently placed it. You have begun to realize that your way of life isn't effective, and no longer serves the purpose it once did, which is fine, but to trigger the "Dark Night of the Soul" it isn't something that can necessarily control, or summon for your own bidding, or manipulation.....

I didn't do this on purpose, I meditated and got to a point in my meditation that I could completely turn, "inward" to my inner world, and vision, and one time when I came out of this meditative state, it was as if, I was "broken".......my life had lost all meaning, and all things within it no longer comforted me....the psychological and emotional pain was so incredibly intense, I couldn't bear it, and it twisted me into madness.....I laughed, and acted as if I was possessed....not to mention that the state of my ego may not be necessarily cohessive considering my ability to dissociate....

.I wanted to die bruiser....I wanted the pain to stop, I wanted to be unconscious, or dead in order to never experience this pain again....I would continue to dissociate during these periods, and I can't say that this didn't effect my psyche abnormally beyond my conscious understanding......it comes when you become aware (in my case intuitively) of the greater birth of life, and that I had lost the value in these things....(I was never materialistic to begin with and emotionally, I learned at an early age never to fully trust any one thing) all these things contributed to a gradual breakdown of my ego, and when it began to realize it's futility, i entered into a full-blown submergence into the "Dark Night of the Soul" it is nothing but suffering, and i'm still going through it....still unable to fully understand what I must to get through it, but I know there is no other way to grow beyond it than to face this challenge...I will not run or submit; it's not in my character to do either.....

Good Luck Bruiser, and don't do too much to fast I started by meditation, and evenually I was brought to a sacred space in my inner being; it was beautiful.....but know that this is a very, VERY dangerous process, that can have LONG LASTING SIDE EFFECTS.

 

[AzureMind]

It's kinda like... in order to move past the pain, you have to feel it - all of it - thoroughly before it can move on, which I think is true in some cases. Also, sometimes the Ego self-identifies itself by the pain and past that it has experienced and sometimes we need to let go of our traumas-as-identities.

VERY perceptive Reclusive; I seem to be stuck within the trauma that I was in when I was younger....i never had a chance to grow beyond it....this is perhaps what acted as the catalyst for my Dark night of the soul....what do you think? Any other thoughts on the subject?

 

[Reclusive]

Could very well be. It could be that you've lost your identity in the PTSD and now need to find it, or create it, again. I like to think of it as like a womb-time. You need to do all this growing and developing before you're ready to be re-born into the world again. At least, that's what I'm trying to do. In healing, I want to also shape myself into the person I want/need to be. PTSD is forcing me to tackle faults that I've always had and never dealt with in a healthy way. I spent 7 years allowing myself to be dismantled, but I don't have to be the same - when I'm pieced back together, I can be better, stronger, faster with PTSD on the side.

 

[Kintsugi]

In order to move past the pain, you have to feel it - all of it - thoroughly before it can move on, which I think is true in some cases. Also, sometimes the Ego self-identifies itself by the pain and past that it has experienced and sometimes we need to let go of our traumas-as-identities.

I identify with this a lot. I read the whole thread, but I'm not familiar with these terms exactly. I've heard the theory of feeling all of the pain truly and viscerally in order to move on. Reclusive expressed this well, though. I think I'm always stuck in How I Have Been Forever rather than Who I Can Be. I once decided to sit in the back of the classroom in one class about halfway through the semester, which was at least three rows behind the seat I'd been sitting in. It was a small class and a big classroom, plenty of seats everywhere. I tried twice a week for half a semester to sit there, but I could not fight the compulsion to take my usual seat. >.<

 

[AzureMind]

We owe it to ourselves to heal that's for sure....Yet In spite of me knowing it, I still have yet to find the ability/point of clarity when it sets in and I can take part in it.....I'm afraid DEEPLY afraid to be vulnerable, and Reclusive, I gotta say in all honesty, I'll fight it to the bitter end bloody, battered, and bruised: I REFUSE to allow my past to do this to me, No more anger, no more fear, no more hate, no more confusion.....these are just memories of a time that's past....that pain, hurts so deeply, it breaks me everyday, and I have to pick myself up, and press on....

The biggest problem for me is learning how to be emotionally vulnerable, and let someone in, which I fight to this day by being COMPLETELY self-sufficient in all things I do, and try; letting someone "take MY reigns" scares the hell outta me....though NO ONE has tried, so perhaps it just needs to start with me...

 

[Reclusive]

I'm with you, AzureMind. I'm fighting this until the bitter end because this is NOT the life I want to lead.

Maybe find someone to work WITH you instead of letting people do things FOR you. Help you with home repairs or errands or something, like a squire. Then you can build a relationship without having to give up complete control right away.

 

[AzureMind]

Maybe find someone to work WITH you instead of letting people do things FOR you.

lol that sounds doable Reclusive! Definitely much more beneficial than trying to be the "Man-of-Steel" 24/7. I know if I don't TRY these things soon, I may NEVER learn what it is to be in a relationship, and get over myself to give it to the other person....It just feels like I'm coming undone.....like I've just realized that COLLECTIVELY I never REALLY knew myself....it's a scary thought that will just come up and smack me right in the back of the neck....I try to identify/ground myself with acts, ideas, beliefs, hobbies anything that will elude to who I am....but then, they are only just things....I have to find out who this person is.....We all do....after all the time we've spent living life on "THEIR" terms, we lost or never developed a sense of self.....I don't really know what it is to be comfortable with this person I am, because I never learned about him.....I feel estranged from myself, but I know that I gotta keep putting one foot in front of the other until this thing pans out....:)

 

[Reclusive]

I totally understand what you're talking about. I kinda went through the same thing at the beginning of high school and got it all figured out and now... I know I'm not that person, but I'm not sure who I am. Right now I'm exploring the boundaries of my PTSD - how much of the perceived me is really the disorder. Once I can figure out where the PTSD stops, I can start to see where I begin. That might not make any sense to anyone but me, but there you have it.