Dealing With A Narcissist (successfully?)

[scout86]

@Flossy , I'm not planning on engaging with him. I'm planning to go pick up some items that our mother wanted me to take after she decided to sell him her house. He's been playing games over a time for me to do that for the past several months. He decided 2 weeks ago that now the items are a horrible inconvenience. I have a very limited agenda and intend to stick closely to it. I have no expectations from him. I know what he is, I know how that limits his perception of reality. With any luck, I'll never see him again after Sat. I do appreciate your input! It's just not a situation where there's going to be any entanglement. At worst, I'll have made a long trip for nothing.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I think its great that you have a plan!

Remember to resist engaging with him at ALL costs! (And by "engaging" I mean feeding into their argumentative communication style. If your narc is anything like my narc, then you'll know what I'm talking about....)

You CAN do this! I am sending good thoughts your way!

 

[Deleted member 29899]

I'm sorry, I only read your initial post, none of the replies.
I've been through this crap with narcissistic sibling. Oh they're fun to deal with...... they're psychos is what they are... Extra psychology when it's about a death, a deceased persons personal property and money.

***What you do is you call your MOTHERS lawyer and speak to the lawyer. You say you need to see your mothers will, or you will have to get a lawyer. In all reality, there's no need for that but this will get you action.

There is NO reason your brother can withhold that will from you, other than in just being an *sshole and using it to feel powerful, because that's what narcissists do. The only thing wrong here is that you are not aware of your rights. You are one of her children and it is your legal right to see that will unless you've been written out of it which isn't likely.

There is no reason why the lawyer will not show you or will not make your brother show you this will. There likely is NOTHING in the will that will indicate that you can't see it!

It is not at all an unreasonable action for you to simply call the lawyer and ask, could I have my/a copy of my mothers will please? Even if the lawyer loves your brother, there is no reason your mothers lawyer twould withhold this from you even if your brother is the executor. The lawyer must make your brother show it to you. He knows he has to eventually show it to you, he's just loving the power.

Also, do NOT feel greedy or shame about wanting to know what's in that will. I used to feel like that. No more. Who in their right mind doesn't want money left to them??? Hello? It's from your mom for goodness sakes. ZERO shame in that. Someone who just merely want to SEE a will, is not a greedy pig. She was your mother, this will IS your business.

Solution? Make the simple call tomorrow. Your brother may be the executor but executors CANNOT do whatever they feel like doing. They are bound by rules and regulations and laws and withholding the will from a sibling is just a power thing he's doing. He's not allowed to be doing this and is only getting away with it because u don't know what your rights are.

(Holy cow sorry I wrote so much, I was getting so passionate about this, having flashbacks about my evil narcissistic sibling when my parent died.... She stole all the furniture from the house, kept what she wanted and sold the rest and pocketed the money.... Never let us in the house until almost everything had 'disappeared'.... Problem? We didn't know what our rights were. Yuck.)

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Scout,
Hugs if you'll have them,
Sorry that you are finding yourself in this situation. I have no answers or insights, only some sympathy to send you.

Hmmm, being the one who's role it was to be wrong. That resonates. I'd never thought about it but that's the role I fulfilled for my grandfather, who controlled the family purse strings. The bugger lived to his mid 90s.

Him and his brothers and sisters were very much into martyrdom, and making sure everyone knew what sacrifices they were making. I'd never thought of them as narcissists, just as unbelievably toxic, the lot of them.

both of my grandfathers claimed that their fathers were alcoholics. With that one, I'm not sure, I don't think any of that lot recovered from the fall out of getting kicked off their farm by the bank after the 1929 crash. I think it was just a way of heaping even more shit on his father's head.

 

[scout86]

both of my grandfathers claimed that their fathers were alcoholics.

I can definitely see where alcohol could make it easier to live with a narcissist!

And, hugs accepted! I'm finding this to be remarkably difficult and will be REALLY glad to have Sat. behind me. I suppose it's a "plus" of a sort. This is making me aware of some long term affects of my childhood that I hadn't noticed. I moved out years ago and have had limited contact sense. Just thinking about this seems to be stirring up a lot of recollections of the past, along with the expectation (not realist) that things now are the same.

I appreciate the sympathy! And, my T says there are a lot of variations on the narcissism theme. "Martyrdom" is one aspect, for some people. My brother comes by it honest. Our mom was pretty good at the martyr game too.

 

[Flossy]

@scout86

I'm finding this to be remarkably difficult and will be REALLY glad to have Sat. behind me. I suppose it's a "plus" of a sort. This is making me aware of some long term affects of my childhood that I hadn't noticed. .

This is exactly what it did to me and it accumulated over days, weeks and then months until I was fully retraumatised.

I hope you are making the right decision, but I honestly feel that it is not the best decision, to go.

The original post asked if anyone on here had engaged in a legal battle with a narcissist, that is why I replied.

I did, with my brother, it did not even have to get to the legal side of things and it messed me up very badly for six months.

I believe it retraumatised me and brought up long term effects.

I wish I had never done it. I wish I had lay low, refused to engage and gone and done something to distract me. Asked someone to distract me and stop me.

I wish I could convince you to do that instead of going. I am sad I was unable to. :)

All said with the best intentions and care for another sufferer.

Strangely, I did not end up keeping one thing that belonged to my mother. I could not. I buried, burned or gave them away.

 

[Flossy]

PS Exposure and further awareness are not always positives, long term. :) Just sayin'. The alternative is 'extreme self-care'.

 

[scout86]

I am sad I was unable to.

Don't be sad. He's not going to retraumatize me. He hasn't got that much power, even if he thinks that he does. All I'm going to do is pick up some stuff and try to keep a short leash on my tongue. A week ago, my T said that if I took someone along, it might be good to think of it more as being for "moral restraint" than "moral support". This isn't something I expect is going to be easy, but the fact is, he has no power over me that I don't choose to give him. This is not always the case, but this guy is concerned about appearances. He's only dangerous if he looses his temper and I'm close enough to him that he can get me. Not going to happen.

How far we go down the legal road is up to him. I want to see a copy of the will. He's not refused to do that, he's refused to acknowledge the request. Interesting. Makes me wonder what his reasons are. He can produce the will tomorrow or not. If he doesn't, then I guess my lawyer gets to earn more money.

Exposure and further awareness are not always positives, long term.

I don't get what you mean. I can see how "exposure" in some situations would cause problems. I can't see how further awareness can.

'extreme self-care'.

What's that? It's not something I've heard about, at least not by that name.

Thanks for caring!

 

[Anarchy]

Scout,
It looks like you are well prepared.

Best of luck, wipe your feet when you get back off his territory and have a good shower or bath to symbolically wash the traces of :poop:narcissism :poop:off your skin ;)

:hug:@

 

[Flossy]

I don't get what you mean. I can see how "exposure" in some situations would cause problems. I can't see how further awareness can.

Further awareness of the monstrous nature of the narcisssist when they are a relative, can make the trauma worse. At least it did for me.

What's that? It's not something I've heard about, at least not by that name.

Extreme self-care. I guess it's a term I use. Taking it to the extreme of Total Selfishness, in all areas of life for a short time. Caring for my self in a way I would hope to be cared for if I was so sick I was at risk of dying. The best food, the most rest, the wearing of pyjamas, the isolation from stressors, the spoiling of my self. Reading, Movies, expensive foods, treats, holiday mindset. Fresh sheets, hot baths, cafes, comfiest clothes, little presents. Saying No to anything I dont want to do, see or feel.

 

[scout86]

Just a quick update.

It was sort of a mixed bag. On the plus side, no one got hurt and no one is in jail. And I got a copy of the will. On the minus side, I managed to lose my temper with remarkable speed. He had things set up to be difficult and then was going to stand there with his hands in his pockets and watch me dig through a pile of stuff to find the few items I was actually there to get. When something got knocked over, I made a remark about how "easy" he had made things which led to a brief, harsh exchange. At which point he told me to "calm down or leave!". So, (for the benefit of the "parts people" ) I have to say some "part" realized that "calming down" was NOT going to happen. Other "parts" were looking for the closest weapon. The "part" that apparently believes in avoiding conflict headed for the car. LOL With a lot of internal protesting from other "parts", I was hoping for a more rational negotiation and to make it through the whole thing without losing my temper. Didn't quite manage that, but it wasn't a total loss either.

Thank you all for all of your input!

 

[scout86]

I thought I'd give a quick update to this, since I think it's finally over.

I ended up hiring a lawyer. One recommended by my T and he was/is pretty good at what he does. At one point, my brother called him to rant on the phone. Lawyer emailed after that and said "Now I know why you hired me!" His dealings with my brother were instructive. Everything was brief, direct, and factual. He concluded nearly all of his letters with "please respond" or "what is your response" etc. (Letters to my brother or his lawyer, that is.) During the phone conversation, he said my brother refused to shut up long enough to let him say anything until he informed him that, if he didn't get a chance to speak, he was hanging up.

I got another chance to go pick up the items I went after in May, after we spent a couple months bickering over the real estate transaction. It was good that I had a lawyer, because the one my brother hired was really representing HIM, not "the estate" and certainly not me. I was supposed to sign a quit claim deed (eventually, their original plan left me in a potentially bad situation), which I did, but I didn't hand that over until after I had the stuff loaded in my truck. For the exchange, I told my brother that I would not deal, one on one with him, he would have to have someone else there. My T helped my write the email and that part was worded, "your wife, a pastor, a deputy, a neighbor, or some random person come to mind..." That was T's line, but I liked it enough to use it. He had his wife there. (His THIRD wife, I might add.) I'd only met her once before, briefly. She seems very nice. He must have really wanted the deed, because he never set foot outside his house. (My T says that was more than likely because he's still trying to make a good impression on his new wife.)

Anyway, things worked out pretty well and, with any luck, I'll never have to deal with him again.:)