News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

[whiteraven]

Like for physical illnesses euthanasia requires you to have two doctors state that you have zero chance of improvement, and it is life limiting (and tbh in most cases most docs wont unless it's terminal anyway). And I'm not sure PTSD would fit criteria for the (vast!) majority of folks, because treatments exist and can be effective

Yes, well...perhaps those criteria need to be reimagined.

And, while treatments *can* be effective, they aren't always.

I hear what you're saying. Will likely never happen because of the current way people are taught to think about mental illness. Which means those people who want to die will simply kill themselves or live their lives in misery. I personally don't think that's the better option. But...*shrug*

 

[user27357]

@whiteraven
today I laughed with a nurse about her and my cell phone disfunction. Her kids bought her a new one and insisted she learned to use it. Her old one worked fine. "But mom, you cant do facetime". "So, did I die without it?" was her answer.

I think her view of surviving is very different than ours, from exposure to the alternative I am sure.
I think ours is very different from the people in this world that will never see this post because they are too busy trying to stay alive. We want to be free from the pain of our traumas, they just want to be free. If we offered them therapy for life, they would look at us and ask "so, did I die without it?"

yes, it is only important that you stay alive no matter what the experience when thinking in terms of survivability and the question of induced death IMHO.

Stanley Kubrick, through Joker, played by Mathew Modine: "the dead know only one thing, it is better to be alive".

Maybe for the sake of argument, as long as you know more than one thing, one of them should be "it is better to be alive"-even if the other thing is "this sucks".

 

[Friday]

How do you define survivable? Is it only important that you stay alive, no matter the experience?

Why insist on DOCTOR-assisted suicide? People who’s entire job, education, training, experience, & oaths are for saving lives. Not making better lives (that’s the job of many other specialties - therapists, both physical & mental, educators, advocates, aid workers, etc.)

...inside of a system (private or public) that’s already difficult enough to receive the best care available, and where people lose their lives waiting for help. Especially the poor, the marginalised, and the discriminated against (pick your decade, for whether that’s race/religion/sex/sociology-economic/ethnicity/etc.).

People who want doctor-assisted-suicide? Would find a metric shit ton of resistance simply vanishing if they stopped pushing for healthcare workers/systems to be given the right to kill people... and set up another guild. Still banning your local hospital from giving the homeless person or your kid who’s going through a bad year a hotshot... and instead pushed for MORE death centers. Because those already exist in states where assisted suicide is legal. Some shady (scams who cheat the person themselves as well as their families out of everything they can get legally signed over to them), some stunning in both their concept and execution.

Check into a hospital... and know the staff there are going to fight for your life, and for the lives of the people you love, to the best of their ability.

Check into a death center... and know the staff there are going to help you set your affairs in order, and help you manage your death in he way you wish it to be carried out.

Strong, clear boundaries, with very different intent.

 

[Tinyflame]

Fwiw (not much) I think here if terminal drs are required to state it as an option, or refer to a dr for it if the patient requests, many disagree with that if against their beliefs. I think it is also done at home, but drs are not mandated to perform, these are people who are for the process. Others even volunteer to drive or act as a witness to the document signing. So I've read.

Out here they're reducing services and hospitals, not building them.

ETA, I don't think it would even be a question or desirable in many if not most cases if there was support, normalization, inclusion. Some people for it have lived life with much self-focus, others with not enough. They never really address the questions of fear, or real or perceived burdensomeness, or the like. Because often, for one thing it relates to people who don't have fight left, or against, or for something else. It's proposed as a 'solution'. JMHO however.

 

[Tinyflame]

I was thinking also, where some of the discrepancy can come in, is saying MH , eg depression, one can perceive they feel like a burden, and they aren't. But then, there are others, with or without depression that know they are. Or worse yet- an obstacle. Like saying pre-planning to soften the family's blow, yet the family could be contributing (maybe greatly) to either the choice, or trauma (past or present), or both. Which then begs the question, remove one's self from the family, or choose others. Not sure that exists for everyone. No matter what is said, you really only have 1 family, or 2 if you're married/ partnered, (or 3 for some ptofessions, military, LE etc). JMHThoughts.

 

[recoveringfromptsd]

the netherlands offers assisted euthanasia for mental health suffers who's symptoms are intolerable and who's life quality is poor as a result with no outlook for improvement. I understand only the worses cases are allowed to proceed. A high bar is set. And there is a year of psych counselling required.

 

[whiteraven]

it is better to be alive

thanks for your words. I disagree, but appreciate your views.

Why insist on DOCTOR-assisted suicide?

I actually was not. I was only voicing an opinion about an idea that was presented.

Death by one's own hand is far preferable to involving anyone in the medical field.

 

[user27357]

Death by one's own hand is far preferable to involving anyone in the medical field.

The ex first responder in me disagrees strongly.
Doctors take on the battle with death as a profession and deal with losing some battles a lot better than a civilian. If you had ever been asked by a frantic wife to do something when her husband was dead and cold, if you had ever seen the looks on the peoples faces after they found a suicide, you might feel like i do about it. There is no way that death by an amateur (first time?) is preferable to involving the medical field. It just isn't.

And I also appreciate the civil debate- rare these days and not worth risking with most people. This corner of the internet seems to be very polite and a safe place

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @whiteraven I don't mean this disrespectfully, but it's kind of funny/ dark humour, Idk how many people I know (lost track) who checked themselves out of the hospital in their mind to stay alive, lol. One just told me that today!

ETA, cross-posted @enough , doctors here (like everywhere) range from quackery to exceptional. Several offer it under the table- or pressure for it. Others, nope, they're ethical.

 

[Tinyflame]

They passed it here 60-25, said some were against because it didn't go far enough:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-passes-medical-assistance-dying-billc7-1.5954281

 

[whiteraven]

If you had ever been asked by a frantic wife to do something when her husband was dead and cold, if you had ever seen the looks on the peoples faces after they found a suicide, you might feel like i do about it.

You are assuming I haven't had similar - or worse - experiences.

I worked in a psych unit - I have found people who have both committed suicide (one by hanging) and who have attempted suicide. I have been on the other end of the phone just before someone killed herself. I have come home after work to find my roommate dead on the floor from an overdose. I had two cousins who died by their own hand.

My comment regarding death by one's own hand being preferable to involving a medical professional was more a response to the potential effect on the latter.