Emdr - Is It Really The Solution?

[naturebaby_85]

Solara,

I really find your posts so enlightening!

Thank you again - I COMPLETELY relate to what you say about EDMR being used in addition to other therapies. I find EDMR quite soothing at times - I've only had 3 sessions - but it had similar soothing benefits to meditation.

However, I personally found and believe in my experience that it wasnt enough to heal or process what I needed to. I think of it more as a supplementary soothing type of therapy, but everyone is so different of course so would of course recommend trying it.

You have to keep trying these things to know what works as solara very wisely said - rome wasnt built in a day. Pereserverece.

Nabi nabbz - have you tried CBT therapy? What have you tried?

 

[anthony]

I'm unsure why you state EMDR has similar soothing benefits to meditation. They aren't even close to the same thing. EMDR should be emotionally intense, whilst at the same time trying to keep your overall fluctuations to a minimum. It should be anything but soothing, as it is a trauma therapy.

 

[Me Myself and I]

Nabi nabbz - have you tried CBT therapy? What have you tried?

I am following both CBT and EMDR theraphy, my PTSD has been labeled as complex, so we are trying both of the therapies.

I must say that I did notice some improvements, I am just not so sure whether to attribute them to the actual EMDR theraphy or not.

Thanks everyone though, that was really helpful.

 

[anthony]

Just FYI, EMDR is a CBT based therapy, being exposure foundation.

You have CBT-TF (cognitive behavioral therapy - trauma focused), EMDR, Prolonged Exposure and Stress Inoculation (relaxation techniques) which comprise the four main cognitive behavioral therapy models for the treatment of trauma and stressors.

It is very unlikely you will ever do just one of these... but instead either EMDR + SI + PE or CBT-TF + SI + PE. They do try PE + SI with veterans, as that sole combination often deliver optimal results, as military conditioning makes soldiers less chatty about emotions, though they will write or talk about the event to try and understand and rationalise it.

It is like childhood abuse, where whilst some may respond to EMDR or CBT-TF, most will not deliver PE to a childhood abuse person because it is a more direct, in your face, behavioural approach to cognitive fears. DBT is highly used with childhood abuse due to predominate dissociative problems experienced, thus DBT focuses more on getting dissociation under control via grounding techniques, and slowly approaching traumatic memory and emotional discussion, otherwise the client just dissociates and misses therapy conditioning altogether.

Some people will respond to none of the primary CBT models, thus they may require alternative therapies that focus on mind body and such to relieve emotional distress. Whilst they aren't cognitive trauma therapies, for some they achieve the same thing for them via a different route, because they simply cannot engage their trauma otherwise.

 

[naturebaby_85]

Hi Anthony,

Perhaps the EDMR therapy I'm going through isn't being administered correctly, or perhaps I react differently to others - maybe I have processed a lot of the trauma through other therapies I had tried previous to EDMR - I'm not sure as to the reason why I have found the 3 EDMR sessions I have had more soothing than traumatising.

But that is my personal experience on how I have experienced it :)

 

[naturebaby_85]

So glad nabbi you are getting results! At the end of the day that is what it's all about - healing. As someone said to me yesterday - it's not necessarily about how we get there, but that we get there.

My ptsd has also been diagnosed as complex and I am finding a mixture of therapies works best also.

 

[naturebaby_85]

Anthony I'm very interested in the last part of your post, regarding the other methods employed if the CBT model doesn't engage the trauma. What would examples of these other alternative therapies be?

I believe I may really be struggling to tap into the childhood sex abuse trauma, whilst I can easily tap into emotions of partners infidelity from last year (along with constant triggers), I do not have the same ability with the childhood incest which is the crux of the problem essentially.

Perhaps these alternative methods you mention would be helpful, what exactly would they be?

Thanks again for your help

 

[naturebaby_85]

DBT - another very interesting topic. One of my previous therapists advised me to order the DBT workbook and complete it.

I'm not one to give up easily but I found this book terribly difficult to complete, particularly from the perspective that it was so difficult to concentrate and it wasn't easy to complete on own.

Perhaps I'm just not there yet. Am finding the processing part so difficult - I'm waiting for the emotion from childhood to come out so I can process it all. Perhaps it is coming out at my partner and disguised as emotions from his infidelity. Many questions!

But, I do believe that DBT would provide so much benefit in helping get control over my ruminating triggers and negative thoughts.

Anyway! Sorry for the rant, I am so interested in all the different types of therapies available and learning more.

 

[anthony]

But, I do believe that DBT would provide so much benefit in helping get control over my ruminating triggers and negative thoughts.

That is what ordinary CBT does best. DBT is focused for highly dissociative persons, where plain old CBT's core root is cognitive distortion (negative thinking styles and fear triggers).

Neurofeedback, Massage, Yoga, Relaxation therapies, Acupuncture, Naturopathy basically, animal assisted therapy and all sorts and types...

Some people do better processing whilst riding a horse, so therapy is done on horseback as more discussion, for example. Some claim NLP has saved them, martial arts therapy, rational emotive therapy, somatic therapies... and the list goes on and on.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Naturebaby,

Have you done much CBT work? I'm curious as I struggle with the same symptoms and have found CBT to be so much more helpful than DBT. (Well, for those symptoms anyway!)

 

[naturebaby_85]

Hey solara,

You mean the symptoms of ruminating triggers and continual negative thoughts - that unfortunately are dictating so much of my behaviours also, are these the symptoms you also have?

I have just started CBT, so am only 2-3 sessions in and yet to get into the "nitty gritty", but as soon as I do and have a personal opinion and experience to share I will get in contact with you.

You found little value in DBT too? So did I! How was that therapy administered to you? Ie in person with specialist? I'm not sure if I should have tried it with a different therapist. My therapist pretty much asked me to order the DBT workbook and to work through it in order to get emotionally regulated so that we could do the processing work (her theory was that until I was emotionally regulated it wasn't safe to do the processing work)

This system didn't work for me, I battled to complete the workbook and was not getting control of the negative thoughts and ruminating triggers so was not "emotionally regulated" enough to do the process work.

I ended up leaving that therapist, i was losing faith and also trust with her but also i wasnt believing her system was the most efficient, i felt like i needed more help or guidance with what I find most difficult - getting control over triggers and negative thoughts.

I have since found new therapist who specialises in CBT, from what I understand from Anthony - DBT is a form of CBT I think?

She has raised the possibility of whether I'd look into an added serotonin boost in the way of anti depressants to help aid my emotional stability in order to be able to process most effectively and to give me a break. She believes the lack in serotonin from depression is playing a significant part in making it appear nearly impossible to control ruminating thoughts triggers etc. I also have severe gastrointestinal problems which can also be attributed to serotonin deficiency. Actually - we spoke about this on other thread :)

So many pieces to the puzzle!

How are you finding the CBT vs DBT?

Sorry I can't be of much help at this stage! But as soon as I get a more stronger understanding and experience of the CBT therapy I will share my opinion.

I find that acupuncture is really helpful purely from a soothing point of view also

 

[anthony]

I agree that your therapist was lacking... lazy would be the word I would use. You can't self-regulate your emotions without help of someone who knows how to guide you... and a book isn't going to do that. A book can do a lot of things, but it can't get you self regulating emotions that are irregular because of the underlying trauma. You basically need to get into the trauma, put up with and persist with the irregular emotions and such, and accept that as you chip away at more of the underlying trauma, suddenly all the surface stuff fades away.

You can deal with trauma in many ways, from friends, family, therapist, online, phone, email, so forth... emotions will go through the roof initially, though they will subside the more you work through your trauma.

DBT is for highly dissociative persons, not highly emotional responses. DBT is not about grounding yourself because you dissociate the moment you begin thinking about your trauma. That initial period to get the dissociation under control, without going anywhere near trauma, can take a year or two for those who suffer drastically from dissociation. Dissociation is normal for PTSD... but there are those who's dissociation is bad enough that they're diagnosed with a dissociative disorder on top of their PTSD, because it is its own issue.

Emotion regulation is part and parcel of normal old trauma therapy. You can be highly emotional, but not dissociative. Big difference. Grounding in general, not the level of highly dissociative, is through relaxation techniques and strategies, not dissociative grounding techniques.