Expecting Sex (rant)

[Deleted member 26314]

Rape is NOT about sex.
Rape is about POWER.
What a woman Is wearing is completely irrelevant.

A good majority of men have that natural instinct for power, leadership etc, but a lot of men keep that purely to business type things and normal every day type things. However, there are men who seek to show their power in other ways - i.e. rape. Rape is sex without the consent of the other person. Sex is sexual intercourse with another person, who consented or not, it is sex.

Men who have this power thing and seek out to rape women, find it easier to prey on those whoes clothing shows more skin. It's completely ridiculous and women should be able to wear what ever they like. But if you think about it, men are more often attracted to those models wearing almost nothing in magazines designed to encourage sexual behaviours in men - I wont get into this but I'm sure you can guess what I'm saying. It's natural for a man to be turned on by women who show more skin than usual. Men can also be turned on by other things, power for example. So combine these things, and it is true that with men like these, women are more likely to be raped. I am not saying that women who wear more conservative clothing wont be raped, since the power turn on is often related to the ability to control and feel incontrol - i.e. having power over the woman - and so if a woman walking alone at night, unless she is a master in kickboxing and has that ability to take control of the situation and get away, a rape would be much more likely due to the helpelessness of the woman and power the man has. Now throw a short skirt into the equation and it simply reinforces this urge.

I'd like to ask how you know these facts. Rape and reasons men rape is completely pyschological and therefore, facts are hard to come by since we have to generalise and take guesses. That is what I am doing and I am drawing on the idea men are men, they have urges and 90% of men are able to control these urges and are respectful when it comes to sex, but there are men who get turned on by a woman walking alone at night because of the helplessness of the women and the fact she might be wearing more skin-bearing clothes, makes this urge 10x more since the man now gets turned on by two things.

A women should be able to wear what she wants, where she wants. However, we live in the real world where society dictates a certain norm. I never said that a women wearing a short skirt would get raped. All I meant by what I said was that a women wearing a short skirt is likely to turn a man on as she passes him, this is fine in normal circumstances, but what happens when she passes a man who is one of those 10% (or whatever percentage it is) who are unable or unwilling to control their urges to have sex and be incontrol of the situation.

 

[Philippa]

A women should be able to wear what she wants, where she wants. However, we live in the real world where society dictates a certain norm. I never said that a women wearing a short skirt would get raped. All I meant by what I said was that a women wearing a short skirt is likely to turn a man on as she passes him, this is fine in normal circumstances, but what happens when she passes a man who is one of those 10% (or whatever percentage it is) who are unable or unwilling to control their urges to have sex and be incontrol of the situation.

This is how I think as well. We 'should' be able to wear what we want, but in the real world it could get us raped by males who have these distortions in their perceptions and aren't aware that they are not 'right'. It amazes me how many women don't seem to get this. Telling rapists to 'not rape' is not going to stop them. Protecting yourself and using common sense will. That isn't 'victim blaming' either, it's just reality.

 

[p-no]

Thirdly, when a relationship has sex within it, and is then taken away, it actually does make the lacking sex an important issue in that relationship. If the sex wasn't present from the start, no worries,

Re the words in bold: I was married and the first years (about two) my ex was not able to have sex. I (sexual abuse survivor (as a child, teen and adult) wanted to have sex and not getting it ranged from understanding and patience to very difficult, both physically and emotionally (the emotional part being the most difficult part). So, from my own experience, nope... Even if sex isn't present from the start, it's not an easy thing to do to live without it...

it is me who must adjust and accept that not everyone has experienced that level of violence and chaos

I agree. This can be especially difficult to do when you are indeed a sexual trauma survivor. It it possible to do it though, and, Anthony, I am grateful you posted this because, unfortunately, there aren't very many people with PTSD who have come this far and have shared about those steps taken to get where they are. At least, I haven't come across many.

 

[Meadowsweet]

So I actually disagree with you, because many a supporter are actually being victimised due to a change in their partner from PTSD. Secondary PTSD... ring a bell?

There are people that are attacked by those with mental illness, I have been. Lets not mistake what I am saying about sex to be about physical and mental abuse. That differentiation is clear in my mind. But if someone said that they had PTSD because their partner isn't having sex with them, then i would find that ridiculous. They might be pissed off about it, their feelings might be hurt because of it, and as I said in the op, I wouldn't judge people for leaving. but there is a vast gulf between experiencing things that we don't like, or cause us some heartache, and being abused.

there are a majority of supporters (spouses) living with someone who has PTSD, who are being victimised due to their partners illness, and sex is one part of that victimisation within that relationship.

When I read the supporters section, it would seem that a 'majority' of supporters there are women and have to deal with men who have PTSD from combat, and yes, it does create an impression that ' a majority' of supporters experience abuse. But when I read on the PTSD forums here, which have very few veterans (I don't read mycombatPTSD), there seem to be a significant number of people who are single, as well as those in relatively 'normal' relationships.

Witholding sex can be a tactic in mental abuse. However, the cases that I have spoken about have offered evidence to suggest that no such mind game is being played. But many tactics in mental abuse are used specifically because they are generally accepted, it is the way in which they are used that causes damage. But I think, in the same way that people read a list of PTSD symptoms and decide it applies to them, maybe people read about abuse and pick out one thing that applies, and decide that they are a victim of abuse.

I can understand that if your trauma is sexual abuse, then looking at this would be vastly different than me looking at it. It is like me looking at civilians, all those who haven't been to war. The petty day to day bullshit they worry about is nothing compared to war... yet they haven't experienced it, and it is me who must adjust and accept that not everyone has experienced that level of violence and chaos.

I agree here, and when I speak to supporters, I do walk on egg shells and try to give something that will help bring understanding, because I feel that if they had that understanding, things that have been blown out of all proportion, wouldn't upset them and they could live more contentedly. i do the same with people who have PTSD too, and accept people doing that to me.

But I need an outlet too. Sometimes I can see the damage that supporters do to their spouses. I have compassion enough to see that it is a lack of understanding. But at times, that ignorance has the potential to destroy a persons health and to have serious consequences. My personal opinion is that it is wrong to leave that supporter in ignorance of that. It doesn't help the supporter or the sufferer to tell them that normal reigns supreme, and he should not tolerate the lack of sex.

What should he do, shout at her until she shuts up and lets him have her body? Keep telling her she's useless because she's struggling with the images she gets in her mind? His feelings are normal and hers aren't, so they don't matter so much?

@Philippa , I've been single because I couldn't cope with the thought of being touched. That's because I do understand that sexual relationships involve sex, and that I would be pushed into sex if I didn't want it. So that's my responsibility. It would be selfish of me to go into a sexual relationship and then start having flashbacks because I couldn't cope with sex, and telling him its his fault. And yes, there are women who do that.

But it is two way, and the other partner has just as much responsibility to remove himself from the relationship, if he is struggling with the lack of sex. It is selfish of him to stay in a relationship that isn't suitable for him, and think it's ok to force somebody emotionally or mentally into having sex with him.

Both parties in a relationship carry that responsibility, it isn't one way.

 

[Laura 2]

@Meadowsweet - THANK YOU for saying what needs to be said.
I too, as only a new poster, am quite staggered by the number of 'supporters' who post bemoaning, if they're men, that their partner won't/can't put out for them and 'help me to find ways to fix her; or, if they're women, it's along the lines of 'he's acting odd, I need his constant reassurance that he loves me, 'help me to fix him so that he will love me'.

Obviously, not all supporters are asking for these types of help but those who do seem to have rather overlooked the PTSD as something quite minor.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@Laura 2 , I rarely bother to rant in public. Usually, the best way to use the things that hurt or annoy, is to look at why.

Although I'm having a rant here, I'm also looking at why i feel this way. I have experienced sexual abuse, but more significantly here is that I have been in abusive relationships, and I am currently doing well enough in my recovery, that there is a man who is giving me butterflies (in a nice way) - so my mind is swimming with what I've learned about men, sex and abuse, and trying to find some grasp on allowing myself some boundaries.

 

[NovemberStar]

@Katarina19

I am not going to go into more of a debate with you on this one. I respectfully completely disagree with your view on this - and I feel it's very sad that (as a woman???) you see it this way. You are more or less blaming women for being raped - that if she wears a short skirt that might be the very thing that leads to a rapist crossing the line and raping her. No wonder rapists don't get much jail time for rape - it's not only men that justify it as down to what the victim was wearing or his 'urges' - it's incredibly sad that it seems many women view it this way as well.

You might be able to find research to support your views. But I guarantee you for every piece of "research" you find to back your viewpoint up, their will be hundreds highlighting the flaws in your argument. I do not know if you have a university degree in gender and women's studies like I do; maybe you have spent years studying the socio-political aspects of masculinity and femininity, but in all my years if study I never once found a piece of research to back up what you are stating.

@Katarina19 some useful information for you:
Link Removed

90% of rapists know their victim. Only a small percentage are stranger rapes.

QUOTE: "Fact Studies show that most rapes are premeditated i.e. they are either wholly or partially planned in advance. All rapes committed by more than one assailant are always planned. Men can quite easily control their urges to have sex - they do not need to rape a woman to satisfy them. Rape is an act of violence - not sexual gratification. Men who rape or sexually assault does so to dominate, violate and control."

 

[Meadowsweet]

Sex isn't just a sacred act to make babies, it's exercise and a relaxing release. It is a healthy thing to do so if the man no longer is getting touched then yeah, it can cause issues...I don't see how that is some kind of 'socio-cultural construct' like someone was stating before...it's a fact. Not having sex regularly can be unhealthy...it's proven.

People can masturbate for sexual release, they can also recieve touch through hugs, massage and many other ways. So whilst holding it in deliberately may be unhealthy. With the exception of self-imposed religious ideals, there is no need for anybody to prevent themselves from having orgasms and being touched in a 'kind' and emotionally securing way.

 

[Deleted member 26314]

You are more or less blaming women for being raped - that if she wears a short skirt that might be the very thing that leads to a rapist crossing the line and raping her.

For starters, I not once said that this was what made men cross the line. I am not going to comment any further as your comment has very much upset me and (pathetically) reduced me to tears. Why on earth would you think I would blame women, I never once said that and as a young woman who was raped by my ex-boyfriend, I wouldn't (in a million years) think such a thing.

I am not even going to justify my points and I don't want to do research on the facts, I don't need to. I have my opinions, just like you have yours and whilst you disagree with my points, I disagree with yours.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Sexual Intercourse for me as a male victim is a coming together of like mided adults in the act of togetherness with each other. It is an intrinsic special time to be enjoyed by both partners, for both partners.
Sex is a beautiful experience and a loving bond between partners.

This is a healthy view of sex.

Where I am right now, I believe that I could explore sex if a man had this kind of sensitivity and understood sex as something special and beautiful, to be treated with some reverence and respect. Not to be demanded as a right - that attitude takes away all the love and emotional connection that could be created.

Thank you for sharing that Laurie - I think it is ok for me, in the future, to seek sex that is sensual and emotionally fulfilling, and dump those who approach it with the attitude that it's their right to have sex with me.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@NovemberStar and @Katarina19 , I think you both make valid points about two very different aspects of rape. But it is a sensitive subject to discuss.

I didn't feel that there was any victim blaming going on. And I do think in our society, these things do need discussing. I actually agree with both of you, women and men do need to take responsibility for their safety and behaviour when they go out. But the majority of rapes still occur with people that the victim knows - they are groomed, set up and raped. So it is very rare that actual rape happens when dressed up.

 

[Deleted member 26314]

But the majority of rapes still occur with people that the victim knows - they are groomed, set up and raped. So it is very rare that actual rape happens when dressed up.

I understand this and it is a very valid point, but you are missing the start of a 'relationship' between the man and the women. The man is first attracted to something, most likely both her appearance and, quite often, her lack of confidence/self-worth making her an easy target. That is where my point of appearance comes in, the inital 'attraction' between the man and women being appearance. Afterall, regardless of the type of relationship (whether it is a 'true-love' type or where the men sets out to abuse the woman) appearance is the inital attraction.

Like you said @Meadowsweet, it is a sensitive topic and I didn't want to offend anyone by saying what I have said. I just wanted to put my opinions out there so other people could read it and make of it as they will. I hope I didn't upset you or offend you @NovemberStar and I only got upset by the subject and your assumption that I think women are to blame, as I know for sure they are not but I have my own issues with guilt making me, personally, feel guilty which therefore hinders my ability to see women as the complete victim - as I also struggle to see myself as a victim.

We all have our own experiences/opinions on this subject so I think to forcefully put opinions onto others is a massive mistake and can have very bad consequences as well as negatively affect the reciepients mental state regarding this particular subject, as it is such a sensitive one. So if someone disagrees with your opinion, please do not rudely or roughly counter their opinions as you have no idea what goes through their mind or what left over feelings of guilt are there and that their experiences might be affecting how they view this topic. This was a general comment to everyone who is posting regarding this topic, as I think in an attempt to avoid upset and such, we should try and accept that everyone will have different views on this. And then, if someone wishes to discuss their views further or explore other view points, they can do so by reading through the other comments instead of having someone tell them their opinions is wrong or whatever. (Not saying that has happened, it's just a hypothetical situation).

It is a very good topic to discuss, in the sense it needs discussing. However, I think everyone should try to step lightly around it - to try and avoid upset/offense.