Family And Ptsd

[shimmerz]

My sons are all around 30 years old. Their father is a creep. I left him years ago for very good reasons. Anyways, he has turned into somewhat of a financial tycoon. My sons bow on the ground before him. It drives me crazy.

So today there was stuff going on with my car. I am staying at younger son's house as I am homeless right now. I am watching the cats. My son and his wife and my grand daughter (4 months old) are in Florida with their father. My car has died and my son was calling to check to see if he could help. His way of help though was 'do it this way'. The thing is, I don't have resources right now. None. Nadda, zilch. His ideas were not helpful because for just that reason. I thanked him but let him know that I made this decision (of where to have my car towed) because it was necessary as I don't have a car to pick up my car when it is fixed. *heavy sigh*.

OMG his attitude turned - his voice dripped with disgust and an 'I can't be bothered with you' tone. 'I have to take this call'. Click. How on earth does one explain to another that they have no idea what life is like when there are no resources? This son seems to do this less often than the others. I am just so confused as to how to either:
1. Extricate myself from their lives (or is that dysfunction in and of itself on my part?)
2. Have them hear me (I feel like I can't do any better at attempting to be heard)

Must my life be fixed in order to even have a conversation with them? Just for the record, I kept telling him I would take care of the issue. He kept calling me to follow up. I feel like a trapped animal with my own children. Like I need to get away from them. It feels simply horrible.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Can you be clear with them? Like maybe if you told them really clearly: I'm handling it my way, and sounding confident, they'd stop trying?
I don't know your kids so that's kind of a tough spot but I think this would be a problem even without PTSD. So it's not on you. It's more of a communication difficulty here.

It's not really his business how you want to handle your car... I think.

 

[scout86]

"Families"? Not my best thing.

Leaving out any discussion of how things may or may not have gotten this way......

How on earth does one explain to another that they have no idea what life is like when there are no resources?

Sometimes I just think you don't,

What you're doing, the way you're trying to handle things, sounds reasonable to me. I have NO idea why he seems to see it differently.

When I think about it, if he's never had "no resources" how WOULD he know? (There is "empathy", of course.)

Do you need him to know what it's like?

Going back to "How things got this way" for a second, I suppose he learned a bit about how to respond to you from his father. And, you've done a lot of changing and reinventing, at least in my limited experience. His perception might not have caught up with reality just yet.

It's GOT to be frustrating! (I typically deal with these situations by disappearing. That's probably not the optimal approach either.)

 

[Hope4Now]

My car has died and my son was calling to check to see if he could help. His way of help though was 'do it this way'.

OMG, I so get this. Not with my own children (who are teens) but with other family members. They want to "help" and they just make things ever so much worse.

OMG his attitude turned - his voice dripped with disgust and an 'I can't be bothered with you' tone. 'I have to take this call'. Click. How on earth does one explain to another that they have no idea what life is like when there are no resources?

I don't think you can explain. Too many people (even the family members we wish would understand) are caught up in their own perspectives and their own opinions of how things should be. Then, when other people argue with them, or try to explain why their suggestions won't work, they just get angry and disgusted. All we can do is try to believe in ourselves, and have some compassion for those who are so caught up in their own views of the world that they can't see things from another perspective.

I am long on experience of dealing with family members who become disgusted when you do not do things the way they think you should. It started for me when I was a baby, and it is still going strong. It is why I am the way I am. The only advice I have for you is to keep reminding yourself that YOU are working to take care of yourself in the best way you can, and that YOU are the person best suited to make decisions for yourself, even when they are different decisions than what others think they would make if they were in your shoes, and even if they don't work out perfectly for you. These are your decisions. This is your life. The people who seem angry or disappointed or disgusted are not you. You are not them. You do not need to take on their s*&t. You are your SELF (well, LOL, selves!). Believe in you, Shimmerz.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Sadly, money does make people "like" you more. This is at least the third time I've seen someone here recently post something along these lines, of family members bowing down to or following someone who has money. Its actually quite gross. I always joke that if I ever come into a large sum of money, I will tell no one because with my trust issues, I'd never again believe that anyone likes me for me! Ok, but back on topic....

I wouldn't say to kick your sons out of your life, but perhaps pull back when you have the chance. Of course, pull back to the level of comfort you find necessary, whatever that may be.

I think it really is a matter of the "haves" not understanding what the "have nots" simply do not have. In this case its money, but the issue I face in my life is people not understanding my need for safety. In this respect, it feels very much the same. That is, unless you've been there and know what its like to have those struggles, you really have NO clue whatsoever what it entails. The "haves" get irritated because they think "well, I have XYZ so what's the problem? Why can't you just go out and get XYZ, too?" Sadly, it doesn't really work that way (for many things).

 

[shimmerz]

All we can do is try to believe in ourselves, and have some compassion for those who are so caught up in their own views of the world that they can't see things from another perspective.

This is just about that. Believing in myself again. I can make decisions again and I need to! The part I played in this was in my incessant triggering that made me dependent (yech!) on people because I couldn't think my way out of a paper bag. But it is the arrogance I think that is driving me around the bend.

the "haves" not understanding what the "have nots" simply do not have.

Yes, I think that is the case as well. I think if I look deeper though, at one point I was the 'haver'. I made a really great living prior to this. I never encouraged the kids to look down on their father. For instance, when I was striken with my PTSD the kids all the sudden were talking about 'mental' people. Drove me mad. Probably why that viral posting about mental illness was so difficult for me. This has been used to discredit me over and over again.

Me vs. him. Constantly. It seems to be about whatever he feels he can find to discredit me in he trains the kids. And they fall for it because their comfort depends upon it. It disgusts me. I hate not being able to respect my kids, but I have to be honest, I don't.

There is "empathy", of course.

Yes. This makes me so sad. I worked so hard to try to instill in them all the empathy thing. It breaks my heart. And yes, I am a disappear=er as well @scout86 . I am trying very hard to squash the urge and rather think this thing through and actual rationally rather than emotionally.

would be a problem even without PTSD

Yes, it is true. This has been a problem all the way along, even before the PTSD. The PTSD just made it easier to 'get at' me because I was so vulnerable, so @scout86 , this is where your reference to history comes in.

 

[scout86]

I worked so hard to try to instill in them all the empathy thing.

Here's a thought on teaching.

You can offer a lesson, but you can't really force someone to learn it.

Another thought, about your kids. We all change and grow and learn. If we're lucky, I think we do it till the day we die. As long as they're alive, there's hope that they will learn some of those lessons you tried to teach them and wanted them to learn. The best thing I can think for you to do, to continue teaching them, is to lead by example. Keep growing and learning yourself. Keep making mistakes and fighting your way back from them and past them. Stand, as best you can, on your own two feet. Have the courage to ask for help when you need it. You have a lot to offer them, as an example. Whether they choose to get it is really up to them now. At some point, we all have to be responsible for ourselves.

 

[sun seeker]

(((@shimmerz)))

You've really had a rough day!

So much about this post is triggering for me. Mind if I bang my head against the wall on your behalf? Or my own? This attitude hurts, it's unfair, it grossly compounds the original problem, and I don't know what the answer is. No, you shouldn't have to have your life all together before you deserve respect.

Some very large earplugs, maybe?

 

[Powder]

Is their father a narcissist?

If so, cut the guy some slack. He needs to learn how to communicate. He should have asked more questions before launching into a plan to fix the problem.

Also, I know it's cliche, but males are stereotyped for not so much empathizing with someone in a jam but seeing a problem, especially a car or mechanical problem, as their "special" area to fix.

I think he maybe could have felt emasculated by the fact you already did something? That's really a wild guess.

Maybe this is miscommunication. You can't see someone's face or know what just happened before the call. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions and would let it rest. I'd be hurt, but to resolve it, I would try to talk to him later and start by thanking him for trying to help and apologizing (maybe, again it depends on things I don't know) for not being clear about the situation. If he had known all of what the problem was, he would have not felt weird.

When I see a male trying to fix a situation anymore, I try to remember that males are socialized differently and have some understanding about that. I don't know if that applies in this case in a mother-son relationship or not. I don't have sons.

What I do feel is that I've been in your shoes many times and always wonder what happened and why it feels so triggering and terrible. I feel abandoned, like "hey, I thought or imagined you cared so much for me, but I guess I WAS WRONG!"

Usually, I regret that emotional reaction unless I do nothing while I wait it out. Usually, I am reading my abandonment flashbacks into the other person when it's not really there in their mind.

I'd hate to see you lose the one son who seems to really care the most about you. Give him the benefit of the doubt unless you see a clear pattern and someone else can see it, too. Maybe record a convo with him and have someone you think is smart, emotionally intelligent, help offer another reading of his voice or tone. I hope it will bring you peace. You deserve it. You're a wonderful person.

 

[shimmerz]

Is their father a narcissist?

Unfortunately yes. I have to give him credit, he got me away from my mother. I am not certain it was worth the price I have been paying all of my life though.

males are stereotyped for not so much empathizing with someone in a jam but seeing a problem, especially a car or mechanical problem, as their "special" area to fix.

This I have no problem with. It is the contempt dripping off of his words. This isn't the only time he has spoken like this to me when he is at his father's. It seems to be a pattern.

I think he maybe could have felt emasculated by the fact you already did something?

This I can retrofit into my situation, yes. Not emasculated, but I have all the sudden stopped being avoidant, stopped triggering, and have become very capable at making decisions. He needs to learn that I trust my decisions now. Things have changed.

I'd hate to see you lose the one son who seems to really care the most about you.

Me too. Unless it is making me sick. Although he is the least aggressive towards me, that doesn't make the aggression right.

It is so difficult to encapsulate the family dynamic here. I was in denial for the longest time about my kids behaviours. I put it on the father. I am certain they learned many things from him. The thing is, they are 30 now. I have been fighting this a long time. I feel like it has been a big part of my PTSD. Attack after attack after attack - it seems to be a constant onslaught. I feel like my kids have been groomed by their father with me as the scapegoat. Nobody can stop it but me. This is all so very sad to me.

Maybe record a convo with him and have someone you think is smart, emotionally intelligent, help offer another reading of his voice or tone.

I brought my friend to a shower for my daughter in law while she was pregnant with my grandbaby. My friend had to leave .... I can't even say what went on. It was complete chaos and dripped with contempt and disrespect. She advised me not to go back in. I did. I always do. That might be most of the problem.

I hope it will bring you peace. You deserve it.

Yes, I feel like I deserve better. Much, much better. I don't typically feel unworthy. Given my situation that could be seen as a blessing or a curse.

You're a wonderful person.

You are so lovely @Muse. I needed that, thank you. :hug::hug::hug::hug:

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I'm not so sure its as easy as cutting the son of narcissist some slack.....should we cut your ex some slack, too, if his father was a narcissist? Where to we draw the line? At what point is this behavior actually OK if someone is raised by someone who is disordered? Just as OUR behavior is not to be swept under the rug because we are disordered, I don't think his behavior should be, either. If he (your son) is narcissistic, it isn't just a matter of hoping he wakes up one day and sees the error of his ways. This is highly unlikely as it goes against EVERYTHING the narcissistic person stands for. My dad has a friend at work who married a narcissist. Two of her three sons are exactly like him. Its sad because the very nature of the disorder is that there simply is nothing wrong with them....they are above all others. Do even 1% of narcissists heal? I'm sure the vast majority never seek treatment, as again, they have no faults. I'm sure the statistical data on this disorder is very much skewed in an under represented sort of way. Its sad, but unfortunately, if your children are like their father, there's not much you can do to change it. By some INCREDIBLE stroke of luck, none of my siblings "inherited" the narcissistic "gene" from my mother. My mother "inherited" it from her father, so 1 out of 3?

 

[shimmerz]

very nature of the disorder is that there simply is nothing wrong with them....

Yes, and it seems that the only person who has something wrong with them in this family is me - and that is so unhealthy for me. It can't be about them, you see. Luckily with this son it rarely comes out (unless he has his father's backing, while he is in Florida), so it seems he is mimicking rather than it being inherent to him. Thus my dilemma. Fight it? Leave it? I am his mother....and I will have to live with this decision.... I am just not certain if I will be any good to anyone if I allow this to continue making me sick.