News France

[hodge]

Lots of those churches are really small in membership. Doesn't mean they can't be noxious, evidently. I just never knew of any till now.

 

[hodge]

Dana, the vast majority of Muslims in the world are peace-loving people like us. I have close relationships with some Muslims. They are not all like that. It's the 14% jerk rule. 14% of every population is a sociopath and we have to steer clear of them. They come in all colors and religious backgrounds.

 

[The Albatross]

As usual, disagree with Hodge, though I also know some people of the faith of Islam who do not agree with what is occurring under the banner of their faith... however they are afraid. Fear is what propagates these incidents... people who know don't want to report.

 

[The Albatross]

When faith of any religion is elevated over citizenship in a nation or society, Houston... we have a problem.

 

[The Albatross]

k... carry on... it ain't gonna be popular particularly (just sayin') but let's bear in mind that even Germany's Merkle is under the gun right now because of the lawlessness in Germany with a certain segment of immigrant population.

 

[joeylittle]

@The Albatross - re: your comment on the subject of the thread being France, I was responding to a post by the OP (see: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/france.63681/page-2#post-1044478)

I'll ask, though, that we all help move the subject of the thread away from generalizations about Muslim and Islam. I've removed some posts that veered into hate speech.

Keep it civil, towards each other. Maintain awareness of the specifics. ISIS is an entity, but not all Muslims are ISIS, not all Islamists are ISIS, and the situation is denser than 'immigration caused this', or 'gun control is needed', or 'let's go kill the bad guys'.

Post thoughtfully and respectfully. Thanks.

 

[Dana1010]

ISIS is an entity, but not all Muslims are ISIS, not all Islamists are ISIS, and the situation is denser than 'immigration caused this', or 'gun control is needed', or 'let's go kill the bad guys'.

And if that's your point of view, I am not going to try to censor it or brand it, "apologist speech." So why are posters with different viewpoints censored and their observations branded "hate speech?"

 

[joeylittle]

@Dana1010 - not all Muslims are ISIS. The percentages vary widely by nation, where Muslims are present.

That is current fact.

Whether or not Islam is synonymous with ISIS is harder to get clarity on. So, I'll retract that, and thank you for pointing it out.

 

[RussH]

What's up with Westboro Baptist Church, Joey?

First let me say that I absolutely abhor what the Westboro group does, and I consider their actions very un-Christian like. So do not take my following comments as a defense of them.
The Westboro group is not a terrorist group. What they are is a group of people that have an almost cult-like devotion to their pastor. They believe the soldiers who are being killed in the wars, the acts of terrorism, and the natural disasters that have taken place in America are the result of God's judgement against America. They believe that America is being judged because of abortion and more specifically our tolerance to the LGBTA (I think I got all the letters right) lifestyle.

I personally think the Westboro group is a very out-or- balance group that misses the most basic fundamentals of Christianity, and I personally do consider them Christian based on the lack of love and compassion they show toward others.

 

[RussH]

Whether or not Islam is synonymous with ISIS

Islam is a religion. Isis is a group, a political / religious cult terrorist group. It would be similar to comparing Christianity to the Jim Jones group. Where Christianity is the religion, the Jim Jones group is a group that took the scriptures and perverted them for their own goals. Their perversion of the scriptures is what got them to drink the Kool-Aid.
The isis, and other Islamic terrorist groups have perverted the Koran to suit their own means. So Islam is a religion, and isis is a group that perverts certain parts of Islam to suit their own needs.

 

[The Albatross]

Oh Lordy lordy, here we go again... "I'll ask, though, that we all help move the subject of the thread away from generalizations about Muslim and Islam. I've removed some posts that veered into hate speech.

Keep it civil, towards each other. Maintain awareness of the specifics. ISIS is an entity, but not all Muslims are ISIS, not all Islamists are ISIS..."

Look sister, pre 9/11 we had a global board of multi religious and multi ethnic forum I participated on and it was successfully debated (not only by me but a group of multi faith people from 11 or so different countries) at that time that Islam is a trans national political movement that operates under the guise of a religion. Of course the discussion was much more complicated than that and it went on for weeks. But hey... censor away. Last time I checked, I got a right to free speech, but you're the admin and I defer to you. Political discussions here are a friggin' joke.

I for one, did not assert any such thing by the way.

 

[Justmehere]

Whether or not Islam is synonymous with ISIS is harder to get clarity on. So, I'll retract that, and thank you for pointing it out.

They are not synonymous. Not any more than Westburo Baptist is synonymous with Christianity.

One set of terms that I am hearing more and more to describe the difference is Islamist vs. Muslim. ISIS and others like them are Isalmists. They are not Muslim. From Newsweek "The left is wrongly defending Islamism—an extremist and at times violent ideology—which it confuses with the common person’s Islam, while the right is often wrongly attacking the Muslim faith, which it confuses with Islamism. Western thinkers must begin to recognize the difference between Islamism and Islam, or we are headed toward an ideologically defined battle with one quarter of humanity."
(http://www.newsweek.com/it-islamic-or-islamist-73961)

One site describes the difference this way: "Islamism is not a form of the Muslim faith or an expression of Muslim piety; it is, rather, a political ideology that strives to derive legitimacy from Islam."
(from: http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/muslims-vs.-islamists)
http://www.sbts.edu/blogs/2015/08/20/islam-vs-islamic-extremism-how-should-we-speak-about-them/

One thing to remember is that if we claim the terrorists are Muslim or Islamic, rather than Islamists (or other language to define Islamic extremism), then we are legitimizing what they do in a way that they want. It's like if we said yeah, Westburo is an example of all Christians. Westburo Baptists would LOVE to be legitimized like that.

If the terrorist who attacked Nice (or other members of ISIS) was synonymous with all 1.7 billion Muslims, and all Muslims are like the terrorist who attacked Nice, we would all be dead. To think otherwise serious underestimates how much ISIS wants chaos and death to bring in their messiah.

There are 1.7 billion Muslims but not all of them believe and act upon the ideology of ISIS, as we are all still alive and typing.

So clearly, not all Muslims are Islamist terrorists. But dang, most national security experts know that all the terrorists do love to be called examples of Islam. They want that. Don't give it to them. Do not award that terrorist who committed such evil in Nice with the declaration that he is an example of what it is to be Muslim. Because he is not.