News Gender identification - when to start the conversation

[scout86]

Yes some pervs do this and actually some rapes of women have occurred as a result of this gender confusion. I do not have the source because I cannot remember but if you look you will find it I think.

I've spent some time looking, and will look later, when I have more time. I've found some articles, for sure. What I've found so far comes from sources that clearly have an agenda, one way or the other. I'm looking for statistics. The statistics I've found are minimal and come from "liberal" sites, so I'm still looking. The statistics I've found so far support the idea that there aren't many (any?) cases of someone committing rape by sneaking into a bathroom posing as a member of the opposite sex. Not that it couldn't happen. It surely could and it could happen right now. There's really nothing to prevent a man (for example) from disguising himself as a woman and using the ruse to commit rape. That doesn't have anything to do with transgender issues at all.

BTW, I don't think you need to apologize for your long post. It was well thought out, respectful, and broken up into small readable chunks. I'd say "Well done!"

Perhaps though this is just another example of political divisiveness nowadays, considering safe places etc (not intending to derail the thread, but worth mentioning). Social justice movements have increasingly created an atmosphere of "protection", but what this isolation tends to do is stand in the way of honest dialogue. I´m interested in understanding how and why this happened. I think that´s a topic for a different discussion but interesting to consider :)

I totally agree!

 

[Deleted member 12723]

statistics I've found so far support the idea that there aren't many (any?) cases of someone committing rape by sneaking into a bathroom posing as a member of the opposite sex.

Thank you scout, please let me know if you do find any statistics and no there is not a lot of this that happens. Sorry to get off topic.

 

[Sideways]

The statistics I've found so far support the idea that there aren't many (any?) cases of someone committing rape by sneaking into a bathroom posing as a member of the opposite sex

This isn’t so much the issue to me.

Particularly when we’re talking about school age kids, physically, they’re developing sexually in a big big way. Personally, it would have been intimidating, and quite frightening, to have to start exposing my body, particularly during that period pf development, to guys in change rooms after sport, which is where this policy seems to be directed.

For teens, kids are developing sexually, but are not yet sexually active. To me, providing seperate change rooms and toilets during this period is important. In boys toilets, they are exposing their genitals when they take a whiz. I don’t think it’s appropriate for girls to be sharing those toilet facilities. For all that some kids are going to think that’s me being a prude, for a lot of kids? They’re just not ready for that type of exposure. I think that’s the safety issue when we’re talking about school-age kids, especially teens, sharing toilet and changing facilities.

Indecent exposure outside toilet facilities is a crime for a reason, and it’s coming dangerously close to that if you’re asking kids to share toilet facilities.

Where that leaves the very small minority of kids who are transitioning? I don’t know the answer there. But simply putting all the kids in together, or letting them choose which toilets they go into? That doesn’t seem like the right response to me. Schools need to feel safe, and be safe. That’s got to be a priority.

Please don’t think I’m having a go at you @scout86 - I just find this conversation really important and I’m trying to figure out where I stand on the issues.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I have my doubts about the whole "toilet predator" thing. I´m glad Scout86 said it´s not about trans issues, because it´s really not. Restrooms are public places. If anyone has plans of molesting anyone, that´s the last place they´d want to go, unless they really want to get caught (and get smacked around by angry witnesses). If the restroom is very isolated, there is no point in dressing up.

Personally, it would have been intimidating, and quite frightening, to have to start exposing my body, particularly during that period pf development, to guys in change rooms after sport

The problem is, transwomen who change in men´s locker rooms (or go to men´s restrooms) have a big chance of getting beaten up. Transmen generally don´t differ much from cismen. Meaning that even if the man next to you in the locker room was trans, you wouldn´t know (and you still wouldn´t want him in your bathroom/locker room).

Exposure doesn´t need to be a problem in stalls-only restrooms. There are plenty of shared restrooms with several stalls, some marked M and others marked F. You just go about your business and there´s no need to see anybodies private bits. With locker rooms this could be a bit more complicated, although the locker rooms I´ve been in, had separate cubicles.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I agree that it has nothing to do with transgender issues and it is more about a few straight men that have dressed up as women. I apologize for not making this point more clear.

All I was thinking about was bathrooms and I did get off topic.

 

[scout86]

Please don’t think I’m having a go at you

NTW, I don't. This probably doesn't even make sense in Australia. (It actually doesn't make a lot of sense here.) In some parts of this country, an issue has developed about which bathroom facilities a transgender person should use. To the point that, in a couple of places, laws have been passed making it illegal to use a bathroom other than one that matches the gender on your birth certificate. "Safety" is one of the things that's been mentioned as a reason for such laws. All I was trying to say is, IMO, we have more important things to worry about. It's not directly related to the OP, although there are a few cases, in this country, where it's been an issue for individual kids in individual schools.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I apologize for going off-topic earlier, I think I should just stick to the original discussion. I´ve been kind of edgy this week and some of these issues kind of stir me up :facepalm:. I usually steer clear of discussions like these for that reason - getting too emotionally invested - but I think it´s important having the conversation. I´ll just gently re-direct myself to the original topic :ninja:

 

[Teasel]

I'm all for the suggestions mentioned by the op. I'm also very liberal indeed.

 

[SaharaSon]

Setting -mostly- aside my personal strongly held belief that "The more laws, the less justice" ...

To b...

Very well said, Friday. I agree. Keep the government out of our lives. Also keep, Equal Justice Under the Law. Isn't Justice supposed to be blind to whom it is applied? No prima donnas, no sacred cows (or agendas) of any kind. No Double Standards. :D.