Help! Nothing Is Working. Tried Emdr, Cbt, Somatic Experiencing...

[Animalliberator]

Perhaps you can try Zyprexa in a low dose. One off its off label uses is mixed anxiety and depression.

I won't take any medications. I have been on every imaginable anti-depressant and many anti-anxiety medications. Nothing worked. I suffered many side-effects with absolutely none of the benefits.

As far as trusting my therapist - I have never trusted any therapist. I don't trust anyone for that matter.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

There's a world of difference between a regular psych ward and those that specialize in trauma.

When I needed the safety of a hospital I went to Shepard Pratt. They taught me a lot of valuable skills. I HATED being there but in retrospect it was the best place for me and I really learned a lot.

When it came time to process my trauma I went to ITT (Intensive trauma therapy) for two weeks of outpatient treatment.

There are a number of other programs out there as well. I'm sure others can comment on programs they've been to.

 

[Animalliberator]

There are a number of other programs out there as well. I'm sure others can comment on programs they've been to.

I don't believe there are such programs where I live. I do know of a facility that takes people in with severe distress but it puts a lot of emphasis on the use of meds. I refuse to take any medications because of the bad experiences I've had with them.

 

[zaniara]

I found the book to be little more than mumbo jumbo, psycho-babble. Absolutely drivel.

What in it did you find to be drivel? Do you not believe in the reactions animals as well as the human animal have when confronted with traumatic stuff? Or was it other things in it? I'm sorry you suffer so much but find no relief. But no one will be able to "fix" you. No one can ever "fix" anyone; despite the fact a skilled and good therapist can help(if the therapist is a good match too). But basically I have found it's help to self-help in some ways; since one really have to work ones butt of if one wants to see some result.

All therapy is hard work. But of course it's useless if one can't feel any belief what so ever that it might help with time, and feel like one can give it a real try. It sounds like the SE is doomed to fail for you since you feel that way, so maybe it is of no use to continue. Do you have any other diagnosis than PTSD? What do you remember from your childhood? What is it, besides the depression and the suffering it brings, that bother you? Do you have close relationships of any kind? Do those give you any comfort/joy? When you are in therapy do you try to be as honest as you can about what you feel/think?

You say you don't trust anyone. (Neither did I; due to severe PTSD, before I had to in order to survive try to give someone a chance and that person proved worthy of my trust.) How do you imagine feeling trust for someone? What would it be like if it happened? What would it take? Have you tried to act "as if" someone could possibly be worthy of your trust, and tried out where that would lead you? Have you tried to believe that someone else than you might have knowledge that is beyond yours? And that even if you don't 'feel' it's true you could act as if it was, and see if it made a difference?

I think the only way to learn trust is by "acting as if" with someone, and finding them trustworthy. But with PTSD that is HARD. And I've met my own fair deal of bad therapists, or therapist being a bad fit for me. So I really don't think there are any hopeless cases. As long as there is life there is hope.

 

[Animalliberator]

What in it did you find to be drivel?

Zaniara, thanks for your post and questions. Since you pose a lot of questions to me, I will try to answer them as best I can.

What in Dr. Levine's book did I find to be drivel? Lots. I nearly gave up on the book when he spent a chapter on shamanism. I'm a very logic, rational guy. I have never bought into aery-feir, hippy-dippy ideas. And Dr. Levine's book is filled with such nonsense. Plus, it is very poorly written. I honestly didn't understand a word of his description of the "felt sense" even though I read the chapters on the felt sense more than once. And the exercises he recommends infuriated me. I fail to see how standing under the shower and feeling the water on my body would bring me any relief. Nor would sitting in a chair and thinking about how my butt feels on the cushion. I found the exercises laughable.

I'm not expecting anyone to "fix" me. But I do expect a therapist to help guide me in a way that seems credible, honest, and effective. I'm not a mental health expert. When I go to the doctor I rely on a physician to thoroughly examine me, diagnose me correctly, and provide a course of treatment that has a proven track record. I have great faith in doctors. Not so much with therapists since many of their methods don't pass the laugh test.

Do I have any other diagnoses than PTSD? Yes: depression, anxiety, and Borderline Personality Disorder.

What do I remember from my childhood? Severe and prolonged emotional, psychological, and physical abuse and intense domestic violence. When I was six years old I remember taking the shotgun down off the family gun rack - I could barely lift it - and waiting for my parents to come down the stairs. They didn't come downstairs.

Through EMDR I began seeing images of possible sexual abuse (when I was around 4). But, I have no evidence to prove that I was molested. Just disturbing images that came up out of nowhere during EMDR. My body literally convulsed and strange sounds came out of my mouth - as if they weren't my voice.

What bothers me? I feel a constant sense of emptiness, lack of joy, and an inability to connect with any other human. I do connect with animals. I've always had a special bond with non-humans. With that in mind, I have devoted my life to helping animals. I do have a closer relationship with my wife but I worry that my issues have and will continue to take a toll on her. I have a very difficult time feeling close to anyone. I don't understand the concept of intimacy - at all.

Actually, I am very honest in my therapy sessions. And such honesty has caused problems for me. Several therapists immediately terminated my therapy after I opened up to them about my thoughts. I have a fantastic therapist now who I open up to completely. She has been very candid about her limitations in treating me. Which is why she recommended a SE therapist. I've been to three sessions with the SE therapist and feel rather hopeless now because SE seems like hocus-pocus nonsense to me. Since I've tried nearly every other type of therapy it feels like SE is the end of the line for me. While my sessions with my regular therapist are helpful in provided insight, they do nothing to alleviate the emptiness, depression, and lack of purpose in life I feel.

I shouldn't said I don't trust anyone. I do trust my wife and my talk therapist. But I fear that if I reveal more about what goes on in my mind that they will abandon me. My thoughts are not normal.

 

[zaniara]

Those two statements are contradicting:

I have a fantastic therapist now who I open up to completely.

I shouldn't said I don't trust anyone. I do trust my wife and my talk therapist. But I fear that if I reveal more about what goes on in my mind that they will abandon me. My thoughts are not normal.

You don't open up completely if you are too afraid to reveal what's going on in your mind, and then she can't help you. The only thing that can really help is honesty, openness and acting against those thoughts in your mind keeping you trapped in isolation from true closeness. I do understand the fear, and I recognize relating much better to animals(and trees for me personally; actually.. :D :alien: ). But there is no way to do this without doing whatever it takes. And what it takes is honesty, humility and acting "as if" people can be trusted(despite the fact that your psyche tells you they can't: for very good reasons it seems, when you look at what you have been through: but not all people are like your abusers).

You feel hopeless. That doesn't mean it's the truth. It's the feeling that says you are. What are the thoughts you think would make your therapist and your wife shun away from you? I bet your therapist have heard more stuff than you can imagine, and isn't easily shocked. If you hide stuff from her you will never trust her, since then you still can think "Well, she doesn't know this about me, and if she did she wouldn't want to have anything to do with me".. Which is basically what you said up there..

Actually all the thoughts you've written out here is very, very normal for a person with complex trauma in his/her background.

Lots. I nearly gave up on the book when he spent a chapter on shamanism. I'm a very logic, rational guy. I have never bought into aery-feir, hippy-dippy ideas. And Dr. Levine's book is filled with such nonsense.

Do you have to "buy" everything a persons says/claims to be able to use some of the stuff they say? I don't. I take what I want and leave the rest. Do you feel that what he says about flight/fight/freeze response is wrong too? (Just trying to differentiate and show the nuances in it all.) You do use some very harsh words about both him and a lot of other people/theories as well. very harsh judgments. Have people used harsh judgments like that about you and have you grown up with a lot of that kind of judgments? What does hippie-dippy-ideas really mean to you? Is it that it isn't "visible"/possible to "touch" for you? There are many, many paths up this hill; and some works better for some people, some works better for others. But why are people who believe in shamanism worth your contempt? What in all of it is worth contempt? (I'm not saying you have to agree with it all, or want to use it, am just pointing out that you have a very judgmental attitude: and most times those kinds of attitudes are fear based.)

I really don't believe in hopeless cases. (Maybe psychopaths may be hopeless cases: but psychopaths without too much violence in their past can actually be "trained" to act better..)

 

[digger]

Do you think it's become something of a self fulfilling thing in a way? I imagine that if you have found so many things not working out as well as you'd like and therapists giving up, then you maybe begin to have an expectation that things won't work and that people will give up on you?

Do you know what you really want from therapy? What does therapy 'working' look like to you? I think that would probably be the thing I would look at now in your position.

 

[scout86]

Earlier in my life, I trained horses for a living. For some reason, I ended up with kind of a specialty in "problem horses." To begin with, in my experience, the horses usually weren't the problem and didn't HAVE the problem, the people did. But, I can absolutely guarantee that, if I couldn't get a horse to trust me, I couldn't help him. I went to great lengths sometimes, to establish trust, but it's the first requisite to any kind of real progress.

The difference between people and horses is, I, as a human, can come to an intellectual understanding of the fact that I HAVE to trust someone, if they are going to be able to help me. I think back to the times that I've asked a horse to hang with me and do something that made no sense to it, for its own good, every time my therapist goes off in a direction that makes no sense to me. Turns out, eventually, I get what he's trying to do. It usually takes awhile and I have to give him and myself a chance though.

Something I've noticed for ME is, the bigger the negative reaction I have to something to begin with, the more important it is to explore. My natural reaction is to shy away from the hard stuff. To deny that there's anything there and refuse to consider the possibilities. I work against that all the time. (And it's getting easier, maybe mostly because I know my therapist better now and trust him more.)

Early on in therapy, I knew I had to trust this guy, if there was any chance of progress. I asked myself what the worst possible outcome of trusting him would be. I wasn't real sure, actually, but I decided that it couldn't possibly be something I couldn't survive. (In the most literal sense of the word.) I take it one step at a time, giving myself permission to bail, IF it ever gets to where the worst result of trusting him would actually be unsurvivable. It's never been anywhere close to that. As time goes on, I'm more and more sure it won't be.

 

[The Albatross]

Great analogy and point... spot on Scout! :tup:

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Do you live in the United States?

 

[anthony]

This is nothing but the same thing from the other thread. Closed. There is no point posting such further threads about being untreatable, as they go nowhere and people here obviously don't have the answer you're looking for on that specific subject.