News Hillary Clinton Vs Gary Johnson: Is It Time For A Third Party?

[Justmehere]

I would like to have a discussion about voting for Hilary Clinton (Democratic party nominee) vs. Gary Johnson (Libertarian party nominee) in the upcoming US general election.

If you are for Trump, you are welcome here. Please keep in mind the focus of this thread on the debate over which alternatives to Trump to choose for those who don't want to choose Trump.

I believe we need to end the reign of the vindictive two party system and supporting the growth of a viable alternative is very important. The two parties trying to get back at each other is how we ended up nominating the candidates who have the highest negative ratings in history.

We need leaders we can vote for, not just against. We need the parties to be working for us, not just against the other party.

The founders of the US warned us against the two party system.

John Adams said:

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

George Washington issued even stronger warnings in his farewell presidential speech. He told us the two party system would become a form of despotism:

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism."

Quotes from: Dead Link Removed

The Libertarian party is on the ballot in all 50 states and is polling the highest of all third parties. Supporting a 3rd party isn't the full solution to the two party revenge cycle, but it is a choice that is different than the other two.

I also believe in stopping statists, and thus I'm against Trump. I am in agreement with some ideas on the right, some on the left, but most of all very concerned about the rise of statism. Every policy Trump has called for himself is a solution of bigger government control. Libertarians are the exact opposite of statists, and thus I think supporting libertarians is a bit of an antidote to Trump and Trump like figures. Libertarians really stand for a positi on of getting into office to limit and reduce the power of that very office... which is a little of why they are also chronically in the minorty.

Because I value defeating Trump so strongly, this makes me consider Hillary more closely. I am so motivated to make sure Trump doesn't win, so she is very much a viable option for me at this point.

It's a really tough choice. When it comes down to it I have to vote my conscience, and for me, that means never Trump.

What do you think? Clinton or Johnson?

 

[Broken Dahlia]

I would like to have a discussion about voting for Hilary Clinton (Democratic party nominee) vs. Gar...

Clinton for me, I'm so terrified of Trump. I've voted third party before but don't feel it prudent in this election. I'm not a huge Clinton supporter, btw. Wendy Davis is the only politician I've felt compelled to support in the last few years and I'm sure there are plenty of problematic things to learn about her. Sorry, off topic.

 

[Justmehere]

Concerns about Trump have me hesitating on voting 3rd party in this election. It's so hard to sort out.

I keep thinking about Lincoln's rise to power at the very beginning of the Republican party. We need another Lincoln. We need someone who might be unpopular but will stay the course and do the right thing with humility.

If our country is run into the ground and shipwrecked financially, it won't matter much if we had Hillary or Trump at the helm, and in the midst of our pain and desperation, Americans will likely pick an even worse option after them. Yes, worse than even Trump.

It seems like Hillary will be a 3rd term of the Obama administration. I've voted for both parties, and they have both failed us, all of us, and continue to do so.

Can Hillary change the course of this ship enough? How will she do that?

 

[RussH]

There are actually two other candidates, the Libertarian, and the green party. I am fully in favor of people voting for either one of these, other than Hilary:D. Seriously, these are two alternative political parties that people can cast a vote for, if they do not want to vote for the more traditional parties.

I do not think either one is a viable candidate to win, just because they are both too young of parties to have garnered a big enough base, and they tend to be too extreme in one direction or the other for most mainstream voters to be comfortable with.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I really like Gary Johnson, but I agree with @RussH the party is not big enough yet. But the day is coming when it will be stronger and much larger.

 

[sugnim]

One thing that always has me hesitant about 3rd parties is that a candidate could win with less than a majority approval. For example, if there were 3 close candidates running, the person who ultimately won the presidency could win with only 35 percent of the popular vote. To me, that is a little scary. I would not wish to see a president who 65 percent of the country voted against.

I will be voting for Hillary Clinton this election.

 

[RussH]

One thing that always has me hesitant about 3rd parties is that a candidate could win with less than a majority approval

This has already happened several times, most notable the election of Abraham Lincoln. The democratic party had two men running, they split the vote of the democrats and Lincoln won the election, but I don't think he had a 50 percent majority.

In 1992 Clinton defeated President Bush in part because Ross Perot ran as a third party candidate. Clinton did not get a 50 percent vote of the populous.
Al Gore won the popular vote, but Bush Jr won the election because of the electoral college. So there have been times where the candidate who won the White house did not win the majority vote.

I personally think we should do away with the electoral college. (It was established because the politicians thought the people were not smart enough to be entrusted with electing a President.

As for multiple parties, it will eventually lead to candidates winning with less than 50% of the vote, but more importantly it will cause a greater quagmire in the house and senate than we already have. Just imagine five or six parties occupying seats in the congress, and the confusion it will cause.

 

[RussH]

George Washington issued even stronger warnings in his farewell presidential speech. He told us the two party system would become a form of despotism:

He was actually in favor of one party, which would have really meant no parties. However there has always been political differences in our country, and birds of a feather will flock together.

 

[The ANP]

Gary Johnson was a terrible governor in the state on New Mexico. His tenure was know for intense gridlock, his unwillingness to work with the state legislature and his belief that he could unilaterally make all government decisions without working with anybody else.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Thank you @The ANP for this insight into how he did as governor. I so appreciate this.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

What do you think? Clinton or Johnson?

Between the two, Johnson hands down but Id want to know more about him. It would be another vote to not vote for Clinton if I didnt. I havent had a chance yet to research about him and would only vote once educated.

Im actually an independant, only registered Rep so I can vote in primaries if I wanted to.

You'd be suprised whom actually is is Libertarian.

Can Hillary change the course of this ship enough? How will she do that?

Nope, in my opinion, she will be Obama's 3rd term and take it all the way to the bottom of the ocean. Just my opinion.

I personally think we should do away with the electoral college. (It was established because the politicians thought the people were not smart enough to be entrusted with electing a President.

ME TOO! Its not fair to see we as the people can vote for whom we think is best when they can simply override it. What good is that?

I would love to see more vote Libertarian and the green party or at least recongize that we have more parties than the two.

I always vote for whom would be better for America in my opinion and aligns with my beliefs more and that person is not Clinton.

 

[Justmehere]

I think third party candidates deserve a more serious look in this election.

There is much I don't like about Johnson, but it wou do be great to have a very difference voice on the stage during the presidential debates. He offers and truly different way of governing.

A lot of people say that a 3rd party vote is a waste.

To them, I remind them that Lincoln was a 3rd party candidate and a rather unpopular one at that.

But he brought a new, different, measured, and humble approach to the table... and lead our country through some of its darkest days and towards a path of increasing freedoms for the people of this country.