I Need Some Alternative Perspectives

[Upside Down Eagle]

Hi guys.

I desperately need some opinion other than my own on this matter... in my own head, it is a shitstorm, it is emotional, and I have difficulty looking at it from a detached viewpoint. Hence the question to bear with me and offer your own perspective.

Background info:

I met a guy four years ago, I call him Wizard. He was sweet, he was kind, genuine, and caring. Much what I craved for my entire childhood but never got from my parents. I felt safe with him. Then: my granddad died. I felt incredible agony. I felt alone. After granddad died, I tried to meet with Wizard again. but he was always busy. In the winter of that year, he called me on the phone and said he did not want to be friends anymore. In the summer of the year after that, we tried to call each other but it went badly when a friend of him called (and interrupted that call) and I felt abandoned again.

Over four years, we were in a weird situation where I felt abandoned and betrayed by him for no good reason, and he avoided me, while not entirely avoiding me. He was vague, he was dodgy, he was wishy-washy. In the meantime, I worked on my problems. I worked through a suicidal patch that lasted months. I got more healthy mentally, but over the two last years, everytime I asked him if he´d be okay to see me, he said "maybe", "sometime", "in the future". I never got a straightforward answer out of him, even when I asked him if he was interested in friendship at all.

What my problem is now:

I sent him a very, very straightforward letter with a very straightforward explanation. I said, that I was tired of him placing this problem in the future all the time. I asked if he´d be angry if I came by his house. He said I was welcome, but that he would not come visit me, because he doesn´t know how he relates to me at this point (keep in mind we haven´t seen each other in four years). My problem now is that I feel he hurt me very badly by not ever having given me a straightforward answer in the past. I kept clinging unto his "maybes" and I kept sustaining that feeling of being betrayed yet not giving up. He did not intend to hurt me in this way, but the fact is that he did.

I don´t know what to do next.

I am so very sorry that he caused this amount of hurt, because I´m sure he was never aware of the enormous impact it would have on me. He has no idea what it is like to be traumatized and so he could not have known what his behavior would drive me into. But at the same time, I need to fix this. For me. I can´t just abandon it. So I guess I could go see him in real life but it would be so difficult for me and I am sure he´d become very defensive if I just said "you did such and so, and I became suicidal because of it". I can´t say that.

I would be very glad to hear different perspectives about this. It´s been a burden to shoulder on my own for all these years and I really want the drama to end.

 

[mrsps]

After reading what you wrote the first thing that came to mind for me was ..... let him go, move on. If he was interested in you, even for a friendship he would make an effort. He has made no effort and the fact he wont give a straight answer, is your answer. I know you are hurt but he is not worth your time and effort. You are worth more than how he has treated you.
Best of luck

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I am aware that this would be a rational strategy, and it has been advised to me over and over again, but in my persistence, I did manage to get a straightfoward answer out of him (after years...) and I feel like I persisted because I knew I deserved a straightforward answer.

The thing that I am battling now is; how do I deal with the pain he inflicted on me -even though a lot of that pain is tied into my past and was not directly caused by him. I could confront him, but then again I don´t know if that would be any good. I need some kind of closure before I can move on.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I think it would be helpful if I also mentioned that he did show an interest in me at any time I was not requesting to see him.

For example, he answered all messages I wrote him that did not involve that question. He talked with me about bushcraft and about hanggliding and told me to be careful (through Facebook). So it is not that he avoided me altogether, but only when it came to the subject of actually meeting. And it is also clear that he was never interested in a close knit friendship to begin with, but he has shown interested in being friends more casually.

 

[Ronin]

I could confront him, but then again I don´t know if that would be any good. I need some kind of closure before I can move on.

Confrontation won't give you anything but grief I think, both because it would be too much and there's nothing to confront him over except his evasiveness - and even that seems to be more a communication style, not something he'd do deliberately as he tried to be direct, just subtle in a way you're not relating to well.

You can confront him in your mind - write him letters, go to places you went together or wished to and think on why you feel the way you feel there and what you'd hoped to get, & where else can you get it without his contribution.

You can think over past conversations (in snippets better than ruminating, I think, unless you ruminate on the snippets) and find what made them worthwhile. You can think what of trauma his presence soothed and helped process.

You can do all of that, and you don't need him; he just happened to be the good person to do it around.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

there's nothing to confront him over except his evasiveness - and even that seems to be more a communication style, not something he'd do deliberately as he tried to be direct, just subtle in a way you're not relating to well.

I think you are seeing very clearly what I meant to convey. Thank you :hug:. There is a lot of wisdom in this, and I can see this would be the better thing to do - I just don´t know if I have the courage to "let him go", when it comes to "being accountable" for the pain inflicted on me. It feels like I would have to forgive him, but feels like a bitter pill to swallow.

I have struggled a lot with the fact that my parents were never held accountable for anything they did to me. This is merely a replica of that feeling, directed at him.

You can think what of trauma his presence soothed and helped process.

In a very painful way he has helped me let go of the person I once was, one who would project their own problems onto people like him. It took me a couple of years but in the end I saw very clearly that I had been projecting my trauma on him, which made me better understand myself.

You can do all of that, and you don't need him; he just happened to be the good person to do it around.

I could not have said it better myself.

 

[shimmerz]

I had a very similar issue with a friend. I badgered and I badgered and I badgered (not saying you did that - just my word for it). Then I remembered something I had sworn to myself when I walked away from the home that I was abused in about 10 years ago. Actions .... I need to take my cue from actions. Not words.

It was a bit of a life lesson thrown at me to test my resolve I think. People can put us off, lie to us, deceive us with words. But it is in their actions that we can see what they feel. I think I looked for words most of my life so that I could do what THEY wanted. I forgot about me.

I realized at that time that I didn't want to be around someone who didn't want to be around me. And that that was MY choice. Whether it was him or someone else. I kind of made the rule as a general rule so it wasn't so personal. I have expanded it to 'I don't hang out with people who show me contempt', etc.

Ownership I think played a part with me and how I was relating to people. I needed to own that I was allowing someone to yank my chains (and I had lots of chains). And I needed to decide if I was going to keep allowing that to happen to me when I could clearly see through actions that I was heading for a fall. Again.

Not sure if that is helpful at all @Radise . If not, please just ignore.

 

[I'm not Spiderman]

Been in this situation. It hurts like hell. Like you, I just got tired of all the "maybes".

In my situation I used a shit test. We were having a "date that wasn't an official date but kind of was" (pathetic, I know). We were just talking about all kinds of crap and eventually it got to relationships. I just casually said "If someone likes you, they'll just tell you and they'll be with you. If they say nothing, it means they don't like you. Isn't that right?"
Response: "Yeah, that's right"

My date had said nothing, ever, and had just confirmed this statement too. I mentally checked out of "us" right there. I was done.

 

[Ronin]

when it comes to "being accountable" for the pain inflicted on me. It feels like I would have to forgive him, but feels like a bitter pill to swallow.

Well, it's a pain that has arisen in between the interaction, not one 'inflicted' per se though, as that'd imply intent & voluntary participation on his behalf? So looking at it as a bzzt, painful static in space, perhaps?

And it may not be about forgiving, as about acknowledging it was differing expectations to which you projected too many hopes, but expectations are something flexible, you can take them back and play with them until they suit you?

I have struggled a lot with the fact that my parents were never held accountable for anything they did to me. This is merely a replica of that feeling, directed at him.

And probably a lot more accountability issues that arise in daily interactions and the like, that makes sense, just saying: if accountability & blame is not resolvable? Some times it's better to look at expectations & hopes one had in the resolving itself and change these for the future.

In a very painful way he has helped me let go of the person I once was

What you're doing now is merely stepping up; letting go of the person you were with him, and being someone who's still you and still true, but new enough :D Potential for excitement, there, it just may take a bit. ;)

 

[I'm not Spiderman]

@Cashew - I'm reading your response and feel like it was for me. Want to smile and want to cry.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Thank you guys, for reading and for thinking about it with me. Honestly, it does me a ton of good to be heard!

@shimmerz and @i´m not spiderman (it won´t tag you for some reason): yes, this is pretty much the same situation. I think I let go of the hope of being "close friends" with him a long time ago. This is what I mean when I say that I let go of the person I once was. The reason I kept badgering him (I did!), was that I demanded a straightforward answer (and he did give me one, now) in words. It was sort of demanding to be looked in the eye. In a way.

Well, it's a pain that has arisen in between the interaction, not one 'inflicted' per se though, as that'd imply intent & voluntary participation on his behalf? So looking at it as a bzzt, painful static in space, perhaps?

You´re very kind and maybe that´s exactly what I need (towards myself, and towards him). I have come to see it as a very harsh thing and I do think about it in terms of "inflicting" and "perpetrator" and "victim". It´s a very powerless role to assume.

And it may not be about forgiving, as about acknowledging it was differing expectations to which you projected too many hopes, but expectations are something flexible, you can take them back and play with them until they suit you?

This is hard. Because it acknowledges that I´ve been hurt (partially) by my own expectations... and that happened before (with my parents). It ties into how I felt as a child: and back then, my expectations (of my parents) were completely reasonable. I even had a right to expect love out of them, but it didn´t happen. The situation with Wizard isn´t the same. But it feels the same.

Some times it's better to look at expectations & hopes one had in the resolving itself and change these for the future.

The thing is, it did resolve itself. I wanted him to stop dodging around it, and when I finally mustered the clarity of mind to be straightforward with him (in my question), he did give me a straightforward answer back. That´s the only thing I ever wanted: for him to face me. In that sense, the chapter of "me and him" is already closed.

What you're doing now is merely stepping up; letting go of the person you were with him, and being someone who's still you and still true, but new enough :D Potential for excitement, there, it just may take a bit. ;)

Scary! :bag:

 

[Ronin]

feel like it was for me. Want to smile and want to cry.

It's for everyone, or at least as far as I keep reading local conventions, aimed perhaps at one but -for- anyone who can benefit. :)

So that sounds relief?