I Need Some Alternative Perspectives

[scout86]

I had something similar happen once too. He was married, we really WERE just friends, but I thought we were friends. One day, as I experienced it (because it might have been different for him), he greeted me with "This has to stop." He said I was no longer welcome to drop by and visit. I asked what I'd done. (Because, obviously, I most have done SOMETHING wrong.) He said it was nothing I'd done, it wasn't my fault, it just "was" and he couldn't give any more of an explanation than that.

Well, obviously he COULD have, he just didn't want to.

My parting words were, "I don't care if it's 50 years from now, if you ever feel you can explain this, I want to know what's going on."

Then, I did what I usually do when feeling rejected. I told myself that I didn't actually NEED people in my life anyway. I was FINE all by myself!

That's where it sits to this day. I ran across his account on Facebook. The fact that I looked says it still bothers me, right? But, I'm going to respect his wishes. If I ever HAD the chance to clear the air? I'd take it. Not because I think it would change anything, but because I want to understand. And, because he was a good influence in my life. He's one of the people who kept me alive and he probably doesn't know that. I'd like him to know that, and I'd like him to know what he was actually dealing with back then.

Got no advice for you @Radise . Just all the good wishes in the world!!

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

@scout86 what you describe sounds very, very familiar. Not in respect to this guy (Wizard) but in respect to one of my -exes, who did exactly the same as what you just said. I will come back to this tomorrow, as I need some serious rest for now - my limbs are failing beneath me :D

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I´ve thought about it some more and the shattered illusion is kind of coming down on me now. It really sucks.
I think I made a sort of alter ego off of this guy, a friend, someone he was not. Without him I would have felt hopelessly alone and that feeling is kind of returning to me now. Plenty of friends, but I still feel alone, I don´t know if I can ever fix what my parents did.

@scout86 to come back to the theme you described yesterday. I can relate to this very well - it was my ex who said the same thing to me, he actually broke up with me for no apparent reason other than "this has to stop". I wasn´t sure what he meant, although I have a vague idea. I was just really hurt and I was projecting a lot of the hurt on him.

It´s difficult for me to imagine being in such a position (of being the friend of a sufferer). I imagine they would try their best to listen and provide support (mine did, thankfully). But maybe they also feel that there´s no way that they can ever make up what happened to us, maybe they also feel that they are shortcoming in that regard, and maybe it costs them a lot of energy.

That is all just theory, though. As to why they aren´t upfront: I think sometimes it´s much easier if someone is straightforward and direct, although sometimes they are straightfoward and direct and we still might not accept the answer. Maybe it´s a way of shielding themselves. But I understand that this hurts, because if someone shields themselves from you, it makes you feel like you are the "bad guy" and for a lot of sufferers that´s a very negative role to be in.

 

[Ronin]

I think I made a sort of alter ego off of this guy,

Well good news then, because even though that guy is gone, you realize it was you & your brilliance making that concept, and that alter guy stays. :tup:

I don´t know if I can ever fix what my parents did.

Even if you can't? That's their mess up. You don't have to fix it; you have to find how to be while all that other stuff is there too, and so far you're doing awesome at searching.

(Wasn't sure if to respond to other points as they were direct tagging Scout, so just * for 'I've read you & feeling with you'.)

 

[UnKnown-Self]

Lots of excellent responses in this thread. If I repeat anything.... Awww what the hell, I repeat it.

@Radise I can relate to your post. There have been times when I would meet someone and early on there would be a click. It's not something talked about early on in the relationship if ever, but it's felt by both parties and both are aware of of each other's awareness. Whew....

Now while both feel the click, definitions of what it means can vary greatly.
Of course there are many different variations but I'm just going to focus on two. So I'll call them One and Two.

For One the click means its a nice unexpected opportunity for a friendship to develop. In the beginning, they are just appreciating the moment for what it is, enjoyable time spent with someone. No more, no less. No commitments. They are socially practiced and comfortable enough with themselves. One identifies themselves as a "nice" person and has friends, maybe not a lot but according to One, real ones. They are not adverse to making a new friend nor actively seeking it.

Two might or might not have other friendships. If they do, it's a struggle because there's an undercurrent of mistrust.

For Two the click is a rare occurrence. This click is a rarer because One is a genuinely kind and caring person.
For Two, this is immediately considered friendship development the second the click is felt. It graduates to full friendship status probably by the end of the meeting when the click was first felt. At the latest by the second meeting.
As time passes Two's perception of the relationship is its deepening and assumed, unspoken responsibilities and commitments are occurring.
Two, having good feelings with One, unknowingly begins to make One responsible for Two's feelings. One can feel this and being healthy enough to know this is unhealthy starts to pull away. Just a little at first cause One does like Two even though Two is becoming an energy drain.
Two graduates from a bit draining to needy with dashes of demanding.
This creates the need for a break. One did not sign up for this. It's unfortunate Two struggles and One feels bad for Two but One cannot help Two. One knows their boundries but clinging to their need to be a "nice" person takes the vague and wishy washy route out. They want to avoid any guilt they might feel in being blunt.
Two wants to fix things with One.
Two doesn't understand there is really nothing to fix since the "relationship" at the level Two perceived it, did not exist for One.
Two needs to take responsibility for their own feelings and self-esteem. Two needs to be accountable for their own actions and and accept no one else "makes" them do or feel anything.

Two is actually an amazing person and only guilty of looking for love in all the wrong places.
Hopefully Two will realize all the love they need can only be found right inside of them. They are the only one who can give it.
The good news is once they do, no one else can ever take it away.

Alice (AKA Two)

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

@Alice.in.Wonderland (with Eddie the Explorer), yes you´re very right.

Your description of One and Two is very accurate! This is exactly what happened and probably also exactly what happens to all the other Two´s out there on the forum. Although I would actually reverse it, and call myself "one" because I need to put myself in first place, not put Two in first place... :roflmao:

This is why I want to feel mercy towards One because they never intended any harm. But at the same time I feel a kind of repulsedness by One being so vague and wishy-washy, even though I understand they want to avoid feeling guilty. To me it feels like it would have been easier for Two, if One had dared look them in the eye and actually be straightforward with them.

The fact that One was not straightfoward with me, hurt me a lot. It felt like One did not actually think me capable of handling a direct answer well, and that hurt (and feels kind of insulting). I´m still very angry at One for not being direct. I think I could tell him, but probably not now, sometime in the future when I can handle it better.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Radise,
I'd a reply typed out off line for your diary, and lost it.

OK, I've been where you are now, visited that place a couple of times.

Went there first when I was 15. Couldn't seek advice, because the relationship was absolutely taboo in that place and time.

Next time I was in my mid 20s. Really nice person, who had massive boundary problems ( the person had an anorexic mother, who had zero boundaries). So she'd retreat or say maybe rather than what she actually wanted to say.

Coping strategies, these are my own, so I'll refund your money if they don't work for you.

Have a little funeral for the alter. Something like burning or burying a letter from them. I did it with a tape that was too much of a reminder. I reclaimed the music for myself, shorn of most of the associations, a couple of years later.

Mindful grounding when you catch yourself ruminating, can be Tricky. I found it very easy to turn the grounding method into a trigger as it became associated with thoughts of the person.

So select the method carefully, if you choose an object, don't choose something you'll be running into often, because if it becomes a trigger, you don't want to keep running into it.

The second time, I ended up with three versions of the person loose in my head. The real memories, the better than real one, with my projections and attributed qualities, and an anti one that I ignorantly created as an antidote, that one had smelly clothes and smelly hair, wasn't very bright and was a scrounger...

What I should have done, was to acknowledge the memory or the alter, and remind myself of my surroundings.

The ultimate cure for the first time, was getting together again when we were about 18. The magic had certainly gone, I felt manipulated, used and dirty. I finished it the next morning and haven't had any contact since. A friend from those days showed me some photos of R1 on Facebook a few years back, with the comment that Facebook was pure stalking. The photos were yuky, a bunch of middle aged puffs in a hot tub. Not my scene.

Now to Radise
You have certainly changed and developed in the time I've been coming here,

Wizard probably still has an alter of the old Radise from 4 years ago running around in his head. Goodness only knows what sort of spin he's put on her. Remember mine with smelly clothes and smelly hair?

The real Radise has moved on a long way from the real Radise of four years ago.

If he doesn't realize that change has taken place, then that is his loss.

In terms of relationship, you demonstrated this year that you can do them without drama. You may not realise it yet, but you may well have outgrown wizard.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

it feels like it would have been easier for Two, if One had dared look them in the eye and actually be straightforward with them.

It might have been easier for Two it might not.

Two might be making assumptions about One's reasoning.

One understands they are only responsible for One. The boundaries they set are for themselves. The way they react to situations is in a way that is comfortable for them. One probably understands what Two wants from them. One knows it is not healthy to betray what they know is best for themselves to give Two what they think they want.

Two struggles with a lot of unfulfilled needs from their childhood. Two rightfully knows they deserved better than what got and wants some explanations or at the very least try to understand WHY!?

Sometimes there is no answer to the why. No validation or apologies for the inflicted wounds. There is no understanding it. It simply is or more accurately it simply was. What keeps the hurt and pain alive is returning to the when and being stuck trying to understand the who, how and why.

Instead of trying to understand others actions, Two needs to embrace their pain and acknowledge the hurt for themselves. Two is the only person who can't walk away from the pain and the only one who can let it go so healing can begin.

Two is no longer a helpless child at the mercy of others.
Two has choices today and Two is the only person responsible for those choices.

Two can choose to give their power away and keep reliving the pain of the past or
Two can roll up their sleeves and do whatever work necessary to let it go so they can step into a healthier future.

I understand the intellectual reasoning and have done enough work to experience some emotional release. So for me, I know doing the work is the answer.

Being a Two, sometimes I still project the responsibility of my pain to others, its a hard habit to break and such a waste of time and emotion.

I appreciate the opportunity to think on this and write it all out.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Thank you @Alice.in.Wonderland and I agree with you.

Though for me, I think the "straightfoward" thing isn´t mainly related to trauma. I´m a straightforward kinda person and this is the way I like to be treated, although you´re right that others are doing what´s best for them.

I think it wouldn´t hurt to communicate this wish to others. Especially because if I communicate this wish to others and what it means to me, I will feel more respected. It´s about saying what I need mainly.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

Have a little funeral for the alter. Something like burning or burying a letter from them. I did it with a tape that was too much of a reminder. I reclaimed the music for myself, shorn of most of the associations, a couple of years later.

@Anarchy, Action taking coping strategies are very helpful and I appreciate that reminder. I am lucky enough to live by a bay with a little strip of beach. Before this year is done, I'm going to get me some flat rocks that are large enough to write on with a sharpie or paint pen yet small enough to throw. Write some of the things I want to let go of on the rocks. Take them down to the beach and with a little ritual hurl those rocks one at a time, right into the bay.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

@Anarchy I´m probably fine with the alter ego. The alter ego I created was completely nice, plus it had the added benefit of I could say anything to the alter and I would feel listened to directly (versus reality where I felt I wasn´t being heard). I still need some kind of emotional support thing as long as I feel alone, and this helps for now, so why not.

I´ve just got to be careful not to confuse the alter ego with reality again. Which is admittedly difficult, but I think also something I need to learn. I might eventually try to face him (normally), which will make those two realities collide in my head, but that could also lead to me starting to "normalize" the alter ego (by which I mean that the alter ego would cease to be this total illusory fantasy and actually become something that reminds of reality).

and an anti one that I ignorantly created as an antidote, that one had smelly clothes and smelly hair, wasn't very bright and was a scrounger...

Haha yes I did this too. It was kind of an inflation of all that I thought was negative about him. Thankfully I never really believed in that alter, I was always more geared towards positive attributes (even though completely inflated and unrealistic).

I think there is no "cold turkey" ritual cure for me, because I created the alter for a reason: because I feel too much emptiness and pain if I don´t patch it up with something. I can´t handle that yet, not cold turkey. In a way I´ve been distancing myself from him for a long time now, and these might be seen as the final steps.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

Thank you @Alice.in.Wonderland and I agree with you.

Though for me, I think the "stra...

I prefer straight talk too. I'm not very good at interpreting what some call social cues. Sometimes I want to shout,"Say what the hell you mean goddamnit!"

I think it wouldn´t hurt to communicate this wish to others. Especially because if I communicate this wish to others and what it means to me, I will feel more respected. It´s about saying what I need mainly.

A perfect example of knowing yourself well enough to take care of your needs. The challenge is finding friends who can deliver and being able to walk away, without judgment, from those who can't.

If you can figure out a screening process for finding straight forward people, please share it.
I avoid making friends because the process is to hard. I express my need for honesty without the sugar coating but keep getting the same wishy washy crap.