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Is it avoidance when i am really upset about bystanders?

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I think the answer would be witnessing or hearing something that COULD cause distress. A mild example could be a parent ignoring their kid at the shop. A smile and a silly face could make a difference. The parent might be wonderful and just absentminded in the moment. Either way you have had an impact.
Another example. Your buddy is not 'allowed out' by their partner or has become distant since a new relationship. You bet your ass there are red flags there. 'Is everything ok?, I will be here whatever' could be a start.
 
For those who are interested. Not intervening in a crime is a criminal offence in france :) and it could just be calling the cops. You don't have to be a superhero. Good stuff in my opinion!
 
It's not just this perps that are unsafe its all the people who enable or bystand.

This is so true. Bystanders give strength to those who bully, belittle, and hurt. Bystanders are bystanders because they are also afraid. It hurts when someone you love, is a bystander...
 
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Hey, it's not my intention to derail either, but bystanders *bother* me.
I've done everything I can in my life to not be one of them, when it's serious.
I had to work out where my lines were. I came up with crime and abuse if it was strangers, and hardcore deception, or if my mates were upset if it was people I knew. Imperfect, but functional.
One thing that's definitely happened is I'm oversensitive to any situation that could potentially go south. It's like nails down a chalkboard or snakes under my skin. I never want to be the person who sat there and did nothing.
I almost hate bystanders more than abusers. My abuser's mum knew. Knew her adult daughter was f*cking a kid and didn't do anything about it. At least I can see what abusers get out of it. Sex, admiration, obedience, a target. Bystanders don't gain much by staying silent, and I almost think that's worse.
 
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Swift, i am with you. So much.

I can see bystanders ‘get’ not rocking their world or facing difficult questions.

I feel bad because essentially I accepted my own situation. I find it easier to be angry with the people who were not in it who told me to ‘accept it’ or ‘nothing would be gained by reporting’ or maybe ‘have a chat with my rapist’ .

I can see why; these things are ugly. We don’t want to admit them. But they are real. I am mad at me for accepting and bystanding for my self. I am mad at others for not saying, hey ... is this ok?
 
Yeah.
Most people who are raped or abused 'accept' their situation in some way. What else can you do? When you're standing on a burning bridge, you can't kick the planks out, you've got to get to the other side. You don't have time to moralize, that's done when you're alive on the other side and not on fire.
Acceptance doesn't mean consent
If I were kicking and screaming the whole time, I'm fairly certain I'd not only be dead, but no one would have found my corpse. And I'm more worried about the latter than the former.
Sorry to be bleak, but that's true.
Acceptance isn't consent.

And yeah. Self-bystanding is awful.
I've put up with a lot more bullshit about not standing up for myself in my own head, because it's easier to stand up for others
 
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Ok, I can think of two instances of domestic abuse where I was the bystander. The first was a neighbor I barely knew. We were in a duplex (American term I think, a building that has two separate apartment/homes) and they were on the other side. I knew they fought, but at first that's all I knew was happening. Then there was a time when I began to suspect more. I didn't know what to do, so I did nothing. Part of this is based on my experiences in childhood. I was talking to a another neighbor who confirmed that he was hitting her.). I hadn't figured out how to talk to the neighbor who was being abused. I was incredibly insecure at that time. The next time I heard a fight it was bad and I called the police. After that I did talk to her and expected her to be angry. That was truly my expectation. Instead she thanked me and said to do it again if that happened. I told her if it happened again, she could come to my place. So, I did something but it took time.

The other time is with a coworker. And myself, and some other coworkers, did try to help. For a time, she lived in her car in my driveway. I offered her to stay in my house but she and my dog weren't getting along and my dog has a bite history, so she said no. Another coworker also offered her a place to stay and she said no. In fact, she turned down most of our offers of help. And she kept going back to the abuser. She did want to talk about her situation but she made no visible efforts to change. Something about her triggers me too. So, I stopped making offers. So, am I a bystander that does nothing? It bothers me.

I do have a vivid memory of a bystander helping me when I was a kid. It was one (maybe the only) time someone helped. I was with my dad and brother and had fallen into some deep, powdery snow. I couldn't get myself out. My brother and dad stood over me laughing. I really couldn't get out. This man, who was passing by, came over and offered me a hand and pulled me up. He then shot my dad one of the nastiest looks I've ever seen. :) My dad and brother, predictably, got pissed at me and said I could have gotten myself up if I really tried, but the memory of the man helping stayed with me.

There is one other time I didn't act. I was literally in the middle of what I thought was a road rage incident. A car was chasing another car on the interstate. The car being chased actually used my car as a shield for a time. I braked so I was not in the middle. Ic couldn't find my phone to call the police. As was inevitable, they crashed. I saw it. I considered stopping to offer medical aid, but in this case I did not. I saw a man running away from the scene. I could make all sorts of excuses as to why I didn't stop. I was triggered. Yes, triggered, not anxious. I had memories of my dad getting into road rage incidents with me in the car. Of him threatening to kill someone. Of someone threatening to kill him. I didn't want to get shot. That's all I could think. I don't know why I assumed they would have guns, but I did. In my rear view mirror I could see that someone did stop. When I got to my therapist appointment (and boy did I need it after that), I made sure that the police were on the scene. It turns out it was more of a dv situation. The car chasing, was after his girlfriend and the guy she was with. It bothers me I didn't stop, but I guess not that much? Or... oh, I guess for that one, it depends on which of us you ask. Some of our alters say we are a coward.

I am a helper at heart, and have stopped to give people medical aid or other sorts of help. I've leaped into dog fights, to rescue a dog being attacked without even thinking of being hurt. But, when it comes to humans, there are times I freeze. There are times old abuse issues are triggered and I don't act and I hate that about myself and fear some day someone will need help and I won't.

I'm not sure if any of that helps or clarifies. I'm not sure if I'm derailing. I too have issues with understanding the bystanders in my life. As a young kid, I had bruises every freaking day. Yes, they were mostly in places you couldn't see but plenty were visible. The neighbors would have seen and heard the dad screaming at us, throwing things at us, grabbing us. We were a mess in school. How was it nothing was done?
 
You are NOT derailing. ( and on threads I start I don’t mind if they do a bit anyway because where thought goes for people can be helpful ) May I ask what your preferred pronouns are? You seem to have alters if I have read correctly and ...I want to make sure I always refer to you in the most comfortable way .

I the first two incidents you did not bystand. The third you also did not; you confirmed someone had attended.

Getting involved is not always ‘rushing in’ and NO ONE should put themselves in danger. Calling 911 for example, is not bystanding..... its doing something.

Your childhood exactly makes me feel there must have been ‘bystanders’ . People who stood by and did nothing. I am sorry that happened.
 
@Mee yes, I have alters. (not really thrilled by that, but oh well). He/him is fine and probably the least complicated. Thanks for asking.
 
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