Is Narcissism A Virus? And Is It Infectious?

[Anarchy]

This is sort of tongue in cheek but like the Christmas chocolates that end up left in the bottom of the tin, it's got a hard chewy sticky centre, that will pull teeth out.

Are narcs born as narcs ( I don't think that they are)
Or do they catch it?

And should we be worried about catching it from them?

There is some merit in the idea that human languages are analogous to computer viruses. They infect minds and can only spread to other minds, they have no external existence

Is narcissism like that? An infectious pathological meme?

If it is, what are the infectious parts? And how best to avoid them?
Is there a science of personality hygiene?

 

[Ronin]

Do we really have to assign that label to absolutely everybody.

Or go with pop psychology that isn't anywhere near describing the actual personality disorder.

 

[shimmerz]

Is narcissism like that? An infectious pathological meme?

I think we all, to varying degrees have narcissistic potential. I think that being a narcissist in an overt way can be learned or forced onto someone. I have seen this. I have watched the cycle. There is much out there on how narcissistic personality disorder can be learned. I think that a predisposition probably exists in some to make it easier to be, idk, hijacked??? by narcissistic qualities.

Do we really have to assign that label to absolutely everybody.

I don't know that this is assigning a label to absolutely everybody. Can you clarify what you are saying here?

Or go with pop psychology that isn't anywhere near describing the actual personality disorder.

Not sure about this pop psychology reference either. I might not be seeing what you are in this posting.

I think that many of us try to understand how to keep clear of and no longer attract narcissistic qualities in people that we respond to. I think it is a fair question.... can people 'catch it'. This is based on my own experiences and research.

I honestly believe that many of us are truly attempting to learn how to develop healthier reactions from others. I don't know that that is a bad thing to strive for.

 

[Ronin]

Can you clarify what you are saying here?

Not everyone that is abusive or egocentric or acting out in any number of ways meets the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.

Unless the person in question was diagnosed with that disorder, it is really a wild guess to label them with it just because they happen to have been abusers.

Again: I'm not sticking up for abusers. Incorrect taxonomy leads to errors in actions. Bad categorizing and broad brushing doesn't help.

 

[shimmerz]

Unless the person in question was diagnosed with that disorder,

I think it is very rare that a narcissist is diagnosed. It is a 'nature of the beast' thing.

That being said, I think this posting could be a good way of delving into how we may be drawing out a certain dynamic where one person is used as a scapegoat, is victimized, or harmed by another in an inhumane way. Co-dependency issues that may bring the worst out in people. It is a dynamic that many of us get caught into repeatedly.

Is there a suggestion that you could suggest that you think would be more appropriate? A better form of terminology to be used when speaking of this?

Or are you suggesting that narcissistic behaviour doesn't exist without a diagnosis and shouldn't be spoken of?

 

[Suzetig]

I think that many of us try to understand how to keep clear of and no longer attract narcissistic qualities in people that we respond to.

For me that feels almost like victim blaming - supporting people to maintain their own boundaries in relationships, to be clear about what is and isn't ok with them protects people from being caught up in an unhealthy dynamic whatever the cause. Trying to "disorder spot" in other people suggests we have some inner knowledge of them and can mean that we do indeed start to see narcissism (or other pathologised patterns of behaviour) when someone is just being abusive.

It's not that I think only diagnosable stuff should be spoken off so much as , in the same way as people "adopt" PTSD after trauma, we can impose narcissistic qualities on other people when they're really just an arse.

Keep your own boundaries clear, control your own part in relationships and you'll be much less likely yo be pulled into other people's crap. And yes, I know it's easier said than done.

 

[Ronin]

Well said & thank you, @Suzetig.

 

[shimmerz]

Keep your own boundaries clear, control your own part in relationships and you'll be much less likely yo be pulled into other people's crap.

I think that this posting is an attempt to education that allows some of us to understand the dynamic of being held victim long before we even knew what a 'victim' was.

Realizing one's boundaries means being able to spot someone that is intentionally infringing on those boundaries.

For me that feels almost like victim blaming

I don't think I am putting it across as blaming the victim, but rather that the victim is unaware of how they keep getting trapped.

Trying to "disorder spot" in other people suggests

This becomes very circular though if as a general rule narcissists rarely put themselves in a position that they would be diagnosed. How do we overcome that here then? I think this is an important topic for many of us. Since I have learned about this power dynamic myself, my relationships with others have shifted immensely.

 

[Ronin]

How do we overcome that here then?

The issue is with learning a pattern and then applying that pattern everywhere, though.

With any pattern, not just narcissism. It leads to massive cognitive distortions & a very narrow mental filter of reality.

Plus not everything in the behavior is explainable by that pattern. So much is just very shit choices on the part of the perpetrator. Not because they had X numbers of personality disorders. Not even close to be explainable away by those disorders, either.

 

[shimmerz]

The issue is with learning a pattern and then applying that pattern everywhere, though.

Forgive me. I am confused as to how this thread is applying it to everywhere/everyone who is an abuser. I don't see that at all in the original posting.

This thread, to me, is about narcissism, which is a real thing. It is also a highly undiagnosed real thing, which could be a different thread altogether or could be part of this one, who knows?

Anyway, on that note, I am going to back out of this thread, as it, as well seems to be going in a circular fashion. I may make reference to a narcissist again... and will take my lumps if I need to at that time.

Shimmerz

 

[Suzetig]

Realizing one's boundaries means being able to spot someone that is intentionally infringing on those boundaries.

I'm more inclined to say that knowing your boundaries means knowing what you want and need in relationships and knowing what you're prepared to give to others in relationships. It's not to do with the other, it's to do with me. And for clarity sake this is something I still struggle hugely with so I'm not preaching from a place of having it sorted.

There are lots of ways people will intentionally and systematically try to push personal boundaries and lots of drivers for that kind of behaviour - narcissism is but one of those, we may as well ask "is boundary pushing a virus, is it infectious" because whatever form it takes, it has adverse impact.

The sense that narcissism is a disorder or disease potentially absolves the individual of responsibility for their behaviour, in a "they can't help it" kind of way. So, we end up ever vigilant looking for signs of narcissism, trying to guard against what the other might be doing instead of knowing what is and isn't ok for me in a relationship.

You don't need to know that someone is intentionally breaching your boundaries, or what is driving that behaviour, to know that it doesn't feel ok for you and for you to decide to remove yourself from the situation if need be.

 

[Riot]

I find it helpful to ponder things like this, as it helps me to reflect on my own personal inner experience, from a time when 'psychological labels and terminology' had no place in my vocabulary. (For example, when I was very young.)

Figuring out what I was thinking, why I was acting or reacting a certain way, or even guessing to the 'pathology' of an abuser from childhood has been an enormously powerful tool in recovering for me, especially since my main abuser most definitely fell onto the continuum of narcissistic personalities. I don't even care if it is diagnosed or not (when it comes to the person who abused me) because everything that matters regarding it is subjective to my personal experience.

I can also attest to certainly feeling as though narcissistic traits are contagious and being worried about being related to an abuser.