Knowing About PTSD Before Deployment - Did You?

[femaleveteran]

Really the closest thing to what I would say a good debreifing should be after any type of incident, whether it was in the box or once we got back at home, semed to me personally like it all depended on how good the particular Chaplain assigned to our unit was. We had one guy who had been an enlisted Navy Seal back in the late 70-early 80's then he got out of the Navy and went to divinity school and became a Baptist preacher and decided he wanted to be back in the military. He wanted to go back to the Navy but for some reason they would not take him....dunno if it was cuz of his operational status as a Seal or what but he was also a bit older and so he went to the Army. They took him and I do thank god for that because he was the best person we deployed with overall. Anytime we had unusually high casualty rates or anything really horrid came through our hospital tent he was always there to make sure we were alright.
Other ones after him were alright but he was definitely the absolute best and I think that is why my first rotation did not seem to bug me as much. I never really noticed any problems with my attitude or mood until after my decond deployment but I still did not recognize it as PTSD...I guess most of all because I did not educate myself very well on what the symptoms were or what to look for. I do not think anyone ever has NEVER heard of PTSD. However, none of us really thought we would develop it. Pretty naive huh?
Someone else, I think it was Patrick earlier was talking about the draftees having a roughere time of it and I think what he said was dead on .....the draft is the worst thing this country ever did. I mean we all can honestly say that however wronged we might feel by the military, ultimately we volunteered and unless we really want to deeply lie to ourselves we all knew what could possibly be in store for us when we signed on the line and took the oath. Someone who is drafted though is not given a choice....I mean honestly, Jail is not a choice and I guess if you did not show up to yor draft board when they summoned you back during Vietnam then jail would obviously be the next logical choice. And it is not like everyone had the resources available to go off and live in Canada or elsewhere where they could escapre that fate. my Dad volunteered and was an older guy than most in Vietnam but he still developed PTSD even though he was not drafted though. However I still think that forcing anyone into military service in a time of war is simply wrong. As well and I do not think many will disagree it is bad for the unit itself. I mean I definitely did not want anyone watching my back in any conflict zone/combat zone etc who did not ultimately volunteer to be there. I hesitate to say the words "want to be there" because I do not want anyone thinking that any of us necessarily "want" war right? However there is a different mindset altogether between the person who voluntarily joins the military and consciously knows what the stakes of the game are versus a person who is forced under pressure of incarceration or worse to be in the military.

I think most of may have deluded ourselves at one point or the other in to saying "Man, I did not join for this. I joined to travel/go to college/get a job to take care of my family/etc....but I do know I ultimately remember thinking just before I completed my physical and had picked my job and was getting ready to take the oath...."Hey girlfriend, you better realize that this could be the first and last career you ever have. You could die doing this and you better make sure you know that." I distinctly remember that inner conversation going on and I remember being oddly proud that I was willing to make such a sacrifice for what I truly believed was a higher good or purpose. I mean I truly believed that my military career would be spent rescuing people from disasters, whether they were inflicted by other human beings or if they were natural disasters the military was called in to deal with ....whatever the situation I had that conversation with myself so I knew I would never be able to say with any degree of integrity to anyone else or even my own self, "hey I did not sign up for this ....no no no....did not know that it was going to be like 'this', man!". I knew good and goshdarn well and I guess that is why I waffle alot on even whether I deserve to be getting compensation for my injury right now. I think sometimes to myself that I do not deserve it because I knew that I could be permanently disabaled physically for some injury whether it was in traiing or not...especially since I knew before I even left for Basic Training that I was going to Airborne school. I wanted to follow in dear ole da's footsteps as much as I could with my military career and he was an Airborne Ranger in Vietnam .....womenn do not go to ranger school..so being Airborne qualified was as close as I could get. I knew I could get through Basic and AIT with no problem but I could potentially have a brain fart and forget something simple in Jump School on the first jump and never walk again. I remember having that conversation in my mind aksi wheen I was asking the guy who helped me get my Army contract together after my physical was done if I could get Jump School guaranteed in the contract. He said "sure" and that was that.

I mean we all knew on some level I guess about PTSD....Most of us had at least heard it mentioned on the news especially if we watched any Vietnam Movies or any documentaries on the subject. I know I have to take at least some partial responsibility because I did not bother to educate myself about it at all....and then as a leader I defintiely did not educate my soldiers about it. I am one of those idiots who was given the priviledge of being allowed to lead soldiers and I did not take care of them in a very very very important way....they should all show up at my door and kick my ass all over the place if any of the troops I supervised over there or on any other deployments are going through even a tenth of what I have been experiencing. Reading through all this has really opened up my eyes to the fact that ultimate I failed them in the biggest way I ever could have. So what if I took their wives groveries if they were detailed out to another unit for JRTC or something.....I thought I did some good things for my soldiers and now just tongit it has hit me and hit me HARD that I really EFFED UP in a big way. I think I should be sent straight to hell when I die for it as a matter of fact.

Sorry you all but after readiong through these posts about this, it really did hit me just how badly I have messed up some peoples lives probably. If no one above me in leadership was doing their job properly then it should have fallen on me to pick up the slack and the bottom line is that I did not do that. If no one else was debriefing them then I should have been able to do it. You always learn the person above you in ranks job and the person below you right? That is one of the things I was taught anyway....and man did I ever fail to do it in this one extremely vital area. I think all of you should show up to kick me in the ass too just to get pay back. I now feel like I deserve everything bad that happens to me. I have been thinking the last few days this misguided sense of injustice like I did not deserve all the stuff that has happened as far as my leg, my head and just being broken as I have described in earlier posts. But man now I think maybe god is getting back at me for not being the leader I have deluded everyone into thinking I was. I was abdolutely sucky at the job and I see that all too damn well now ladies and gents. Thing is there is no one who can fix any of it now. I screwed up and God only knows what some if not all my soldiers have lost as a result of my total and absolute incompetence. Man what an incredible screw up I am for REAL.
I maybe I do not know what I should maybe do....damn. I have never been so screwed up and turned around and inside out and upside down as I am right now. I do not want to be at blame but I cannot see any other way around it. I mean I really am at fault as a former leader of soldiers....I mean really there is no other way to look at it and certainly no other way I can see to justify my failure. What a fricked up mess all this is becoming.

 

[abnvet]

The military is great at prepping us for combat but when all is said and done and we come home......nothing. Well that was what I experience anyways. We went right back to work as if nothing happened -nada. Then years later I had a breakdown and had to look for help myself...

 

[No Folded Hands]

Hmmm. Reading through all these brought up a memory I am hesitant to share with you guys. I don't recall it being known as PTSD, but during initial training those of us commissioning in as medical officers did get briefings on the possibility of combat troops with "the shakes" coming through and how to deal with them. Whether we personally were their primary healthcare person or not was irrelevant, we were told, because the fundamental point was for the entire medical corp to present a sustained and united viewpoint in such cases.

The short form of it is that we were to make it clear they were just tired, and needed a little rest before returning to their duty stations and buddies. We were to keep them interested in getting back as soon as possible, make every effort to get any of their unit who could to come in to visit and suggest to such visitors that the guy needed encouragement and to know how much he was missed and needed back with the unit, and to tell them emphatically that nothing was wrong with the guy other than being a little tired and just needing a few days rest. This was to be our approach no matter what actual symptoms we saw or how bad they were. It was pointedly explained to us that after "an engagement" there were always people who wanted to "pull a Klinger" (think MASH) and the best way to deal with them was to ignore their attempt to scam their way out of the military and keep telling them they were going back without letting them know we'd twigged what they were up to. What about those who aren't faking it, some of us wanted to know? Well, there will be a few who are really having a bad time, came the answer, but if we let anyone having a problem leave we'll run out of combatants so we need to get them back in as fast as possible and this is the way.

They came down repeatedly and hard on the idea of telling these guys that they were needed by their buddies, that people were wiaiting for them and deoending on them to get back as fast as they could, etc...and it may well have been true, and we were certainly told that we really didn't understand because we were medcopr, not line. That didn't stop many of us discussing with other medical people worries about what that kind of psychological affects would come from that sort of manipulation.

I don't know what y'all will think of all this. I find it, and the question of what is being taught now, very troubling. Probably as troubling as the marines at this university who came back from deployment, went into ROTC, and purportedly are having a lot of problems they will not admit wither because it's not manly, or because they are still in the Guard and are afraid it will hurt their career. How they got past the screening I keep hearing is taking place now is a question I can't answer, as I only found out because another ROTC student brought what is going on to my attention. *sigh*

 

[Jimmy1]

The short form of it is that we were to make it clear they were just tired, and needed a little rest before returning to their duty stations and buddies. We were to keep them interested in getting back as soon as possible, make every effort to get any of their unit who could to come in to visit and suggest to such visitors that the guy needed encouragement and to know how much he was missed and needed back with the unit, and to tell them emphatically that nothing was wrong with the guy other than being a little tired and just needing a few days rest. This was to be our approach no matter what actual symptoms we saw or how bad they were. It was pointedly explained to us that after "an engagement" there were always people who wanted to "pull a Klinger" (think MASH) and the best way to deal with them was to ignore their attempt to scam their way out of the military and keep telling them they were going back without letting them know we'd twigged what they were up to. What about those who aren't faking it, some of us wanted to know? Well, there will be a few who are really having a bad time, came the answer, but if we let anyone having a problem leave we'll run out of combatants so we need to get them back in as fast as possible and this is the way.

They came down repeatedly and hard on the idea of telling these guys that they were needed by their buddies, that people were wiaiting for them and deoending on them to get back as fast as they could, etc...and it may well have been true, and we were certainly told that we really didn't understand because we were medcopr, not line. That didn't stop many of us discussing with other medical people worries about what that kind of psychological affects would come from that sort of manipulation

You have brought up an awesome topic.....

My first thought was WTF. Then I thought, well when you fall off a horse the first thing you should do is get back on, unless you have something broken of course.

Here is the clincher though. In my opinion that is, or my understanding.

The debriefing of soldiers after the battle is really important. You see it all the time now with the Police, Paramedics, Firemen and women, and other emergency services.
Most soldiers after being in a firefight, surviving a mortar or IED attack unscathed, etc. etc. joke about it or say things like 'I am cool'. The real damage does not occur until months sometimes years later. One of the criteria that the DSM IV which is the psych manual states is 'that the person must have suffered the trauma more than 30 days before', or something like that. Maybe someone with a bit more knowledge can help me out here.
If you go to a psych before the 30 days, its classed as a depressive episode or an anxiety disorder.

Being a Warrant Officer, I saw lots of cases of battle fatigue. Soldiers over tired and shaking, and not wanting to be there. Yes, I told them they should not let the team down. Fear is a thing not needed on the battlefield.
What I am trying to say is that what they made you do was sort of correct, but maybe they should have also sent the people to psychs as well.

Really, its just another case of harden the f*ck up.

I hope

 

[willis williams]

Think about it this way we fake emotions every day to try and hold a family together sometimes to no avail. So to answer your question about evals fake it till you make it. This can backfire if an off mood hits when you are trying for what ever your goal is. As for treating people in combat that show signs of combat stress that may be a more severe condition none of us are god so we don't know unless they are completely off thier rocker at the time of the examination. I do beleive that even the scared ones that figure out they don't want to be there are needed if they can perform thier job because a team is only complete if the team is together. Instead of 4 men fighting off 25 the 5th one could make a difference on atleast the flank. Ther have been so many mistakes in this field that they can't be counted. I think if we were to make a change it would probably be nice to see a combat readiness eval. every two weeks by a head shrinker. So ware we going to get shrinks that are willing to throw away 8 or 10 yrs. of college to go to the front lines and caryon sesions. The hole thing is scary because when tweaked you can go either way. I chose the I love the fight aditude and volunteered for everything that I could to ge in the shit hense thats one of the reasons I don't conform to social norms well. Just thinking on screen. TEX

 

[AnotherPerson]

I got to my first unit out of OSUT and I was a pretty outgoing individual. When I got there my commander basically told me not to unpack because we were set to deploy in 2 and a half months. I didn't think anything of it and was my usual cheery self around the unit. While I was training my squad leader was in the smoke pit with me and I was asking him how Iraq was, he had been in the initial invasion. All he told me was this; "You know how you are all happy and cheerful to be here, all patriotic and wanting to defend freedom bullshit?" I said yeah, I guess so... He says, "Wait till the deployments over and your family aint gonna recognize you." Didn't know what he meant till I was home for 6 months and called my dad, my dad asked me if there was something wrong with me and I didn't know what he meant. Anyways, I wish we had a class on it or something before we went, signs or something, but in all reality, I don't think a class would have helped.