Mechanics Of A Taker!

[Deleted member 34535]

@crc53liamt I am a bit confused! You said that no one here is talking about blamin...

My Thread states what it states. Take from it what you will and interpret it as you will. That works for me! Lord knows we all have our opinions. It would be a boring world if we all thought alike.

 

[Friday]

Hmmm I'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing! I thought it was about people who are all about themselves and people who are actively malicious, how to recognise and avoid them.

Exactly where I was coming from...as the thread transitioned from 'How to recognize & avoid people we don't like," to "How to avoid being victimized".

There are some black & white things that are just mine, period, here to stay, and I am uninterested in changing them. But most black & white things, I've come to find, are set ups for disaster. When I see that? I tend to start waving flags.

Looking at traits that make up an abuser? Awesome.
Taking it a step further and declaring all X (like all takers) abusers? Disaster.
Take it a step out of time and look at traits in a vacuum? Like manipulation, or lying, or taking, or physical violence? Also disaster.

Shades of grey become reeeeeally important when looking at people. Especially when looking at how we interact with people.

The best therapists, negotiators, diplomats, & teachers... Are master manipulators.
The best actors, spies, card players, & writers... Are unparalleled liars.
Some of the best athletes in the world -depends on the sport... Are exquisitely violent.

None of that means that they're good people, or bad people, or people you'd like or dislike if you met them on the street. They've acquired skills. They can use those skills to good purpose, or not. Both in their professional & personal lives. Someone can use a skill set to the noblest purpose in their professional life, and be horrifically abusive using the same skill set in their personal life. And vice versa. And both noble, and both abuse. It's not the skill, or the trait, that makes someone abusive. It's how they use it.

All all abusers takers? No.
Are all takers abusers? No.
It's not a black and white thing.
To avoid being victimized -isn't always possible- but where it is? Have to see the grey. Or :blackeye:

That's where I was coming from ;)

 

[Sideways]

Givers v's takers.
Good v's evil.

IME, individuals tend to be more complex than that.

 

[Deleted member 34535]

Friday, your interpretation is yours and mine is mine. I thank you for acknowledging that my interpretation is every bit as valid as yours. And every individual on here will take each thread and opinion on it's own merits. Thus they can decide for themselves what they believe and how they might use or not use the varied opinions provided. Bless You!!!

 

[joeylittle]

Who is saying here that anyone is giving with and perhaps expressly for a return??
That's a whole different thing!! Called manipulation

I think the point is that people who 'give' are often unaware of their own intentions. Subconsciously, people can expect something in return - future consideration, for example.

I worked for a very demanding boss for a decade. He did not hesitate to pile things on my plate. But, I was honestly eager for the challenges. It wasn't until around the 6th, 7th year when I slowly started being frustrated. But - I kept giving it my all, and I wasn't resentful; I thought, 'this will all matter someday'.

My boss went on to become one of the most powerful people in my industry. He has never offered me a leg-up, professionally. I never wanted to impose that kind of ask on him - but surely, I thought, it will eventually have mattered, that I did all that work, much of it contributing to his advancement. And he always seemed to genuinely believe in me.

Now, another 10 years on, I understand that at a certain point, I was developing assumptions that what goes around comes around, he'd do me a good turn, pay me back, so to speak.

I was giving - and subconsciously, it was in order to someday get something back.

I'll never get anything back from him, that's clear to me now.

No - I wasn't manipulating him. But, I was hoping for something. I didn't protect my own boundaries. He didn't manipulate me, either. He asked, I gave, he took. But I'm not a victim - nor am I without accountability. He's not a perp - nor is he lacking accountability (good boss doesn't let good employee work themselves into the ground).

Just thoughts.

 

[Nevermore]

The best therapists, negotiators, diplomats, & teachers... Are master manipulators.
The best actors, spies, card players, & writers... Are unparalleled liars.
Some of the best athletes in the world -depends on the sport... Are exquisitely violent......It's not the skill, or the trait, that makes someone abusive. It's how they use it.

Change "are " to "can be" and I agree with you. I think that's the point though isn't it - the choice people make to manipulate, to lie or to be violent. Those are the ones on the "to be avoided" list.
I don't feel at all manipulated by the therapist I see. She is a font of knowledge and understanding for me, that's what she's learned and uses it to help. I trust her integrity totally.
But I've got a good one. I have experienced a bad one - put into the basket of "to be avoided"!!

 

[Nevermore]

@joeylittle yes, not a perp, just your average everyday jerk!!
I don't like them either....
Hmm the list is getting bigger and bigger:locktopic:

 

[joeylittle]

not a perp, just your average everyday jerk!!

Well, oddly, I don't think he did anything really wrong. I wish he'd have been a better boss - but he kept his boundaries more intact than I did. I don't think I'm blaming myself - it's just also hard for me to blame him, now that I understand the choices I made and how I did have the ability to make different ones.

I think there's a balance that can be struck, where one sees ones own role in a dysfunctional situation without needing to beat oneself up or vilify the other party.

 

[Nevermore]

Yep, I see what you mean. You are wise!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Takers are........yes, the E word.....EVIL.

The word "evil" is a common theme in a lot of your threads. Evil isnt someone whom always asks you for money and never pays you back! Evil are the psycopaths mother & step father of mine that tortured me beyond what most want to even believe. Thats evil, not "takers".

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Takers. You describe AntiSocial Personality Disorder (ASPD).

I disagree.

There is a disgnosic criteria of ASPD.

I do, however, question whether or not every selfish asshole, workplace bully, difficult ex, and abusive parent/child/boss, is a person with a legitimate personality disorder.

Taking it a step further and declaring all X (like all takers) abusers? Disaster.

Agreed 1000 times with both! Not all assholes have a mental disorder, not all assholes are evil, not all assholes are purposely assholes. Not all assholes should be avoided like the plague. I actually read this thread with so much sadness. How black and white so many posts are.

To those that are Christian, remember Jesus hung out with prositutes and theifs. Im not religous but I do try to live my life in that way. Love all, help those you can while learning to and keeping strong boundries.

As to whose fault it is, I say both as people shouldnt take advantage of others but those that give need to have good boundries.

We need to love even the assholes of the world and to stop putting a label like "evil" on what's no where near evil's ballpark.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I think when it comes down to the nitty gritty (for me at least) when something like this happens.... I look at the situation, and figure out my side of it. For me it's about personal responsibility. It's just not all one sided.