Methods To Differentiate Between Hypervigilance or being Triggered & Real Threat?

[Abstract]

Hi All,
Wondering if anyone has input on this. I sort of thought I didn't too badly discerning when I am not in a rational place but more recently not that sure. What do you do to make sure you are addressing and seeing real threat in an appropriate way versus identifying when triggered or reacting in hypervigilance? Thank you! Proportionate or unproportionate. Crystal ball maybe.

Ps. Have a history of thinking I am overreacting and not dealing with real present day issues regardless of if in HV mode or not.

 

[Freida]

My guru worked on this a lot with me because I have major safety issues.
His response? If you think you are in danger do a threat assessment.
His view on it was the only way to lower my hyper vigilance was to address it head on.
So....
Stop for 60 seconds.
Note the exits
Determine how to get to them
Slowly view the entire area and note any obvious threats
Check for people and things that are out of place
Look for weapons that can be used if necessary

Then ask myself -- Do I see an authentic danger?
Usually the answer is no.
Then I can go on about my day
If I can't answer no - then I leave.

It really is effective and the more I did it the more convinced I became that if there was a threat I would notice it - so I didn't need to be so vigilant.
Just this week I realized I was out of practice and had to start back up and I forgot how confident it makes me feel

Hope that helps!

 

[Abstract]

Thanks @Frieda! That makes sense. How do you find that relates to more complex subtle threats like interpersonal situations? Guess it depends on the nature of someones past trauma too.

Also interested in all levels of threat. Such as life/death assualt, along the whole spectrum down to minor interpersonal stuff. Seeing the reality and not through either trauma coloured glasses - or through ones ignoring the present because of the assumption its actually about the past.

 

[Freida]

. How do you find that relates to more complex subtle threats like interpersonal situations?

I think it's kind of the same thing...accept I'm working off old knowledge and gave it head on rather than thru denial. Or maybe that's just me! :laugh:

 

[Abstract]

Hi @Freida!

That could well just be you! ?Or more pointedly not me, sadly.

My mind is doing ?? trying to absorb your approach! ? I'm swinging between me thinking it is totally logical and I do that too ... to thinking ?? that it is totally oppositve to my default settings.

Could you talk me through a situation as if I have the intelligence of a tired one cell amoeba?

Lets say you are at work and one of the colleages is behaving in a way that could indicate some sort of agenda against you. What would you do and what would you think? Lets throw in there that people being duplicitous has a tendency to set off because of past stuff.

OK. Going to add another one for balance. No pressure to answer by the way!
Happened late tonight: dude standing still next to bush outside gate when came home. Speaks quietly. Eventually obvious its a come on. Wants to know if married etc. A little shift forward then back etc, a little look to the side.

 

[Freida]

Oh yea. It takes practice!

ts say you are at work and one of the colleages is behaving in a way that could indicate some sort of agenda against you. What would you do and what would you think? Lets throw in there that people being duplicitous has a tendency to set off because of past stuff.

This is where hyper vigilance comes in handy! Follow them around for a while then flat out ask ask them what they are doing. Lol seriously - the only way to know I'm safe is to treat them like a threat so I may as well have fun with it. The big benefit is that it will make them crazy because no one expects that -- which will encourage them to find an easier person to screw with.

The flip side to that (because, well, I'm a bit ballsyer than most people lol,) is to create a plan that assumes they are up to no good. Whatever you are working on - take a look at how you, if you were an evil troll, would screw it up. Then plan accordingly. The benefit is that your project turns out way better because of the extra planning and you circumvent what they are trying to do. And it really doesn't take all that much extra time. I worked in what could lovingly be called a snake pit so it became second nature to assume "someone" was going to try to derail me along the way.

Happened late tonight: dude standing still next to bush outside gate when came home. Speaks quietly. Eventually obvious its a come on. Wants to know if married etc. A little shift forward then back etc, a little look to the side.

This? Threat until proven otherwise. I'm in his line of site and oh yea, I'm going to make sure he knows I see him. Head up, shoulders back, look straight at him and don't say a word. I dont get close enough for him to put hands on me but I KNOW that if he touches me I will take him out. That translates into body language that says "pick an easier victim asshat." (which is hysterically funny if you could see me -- short, tubby and a woman of a certain age LOL)

This is where threat assessment comes in. He might just be that shy office guy who finally gets up the nerve to ask you out. But. If your gut says its not safe believe it and go elsewhere until he is gone. Sometimes I try to talk myself out of believing my own reactions because I know I'm paranoid. But. I would rather over react and be safe than berate myself for being "ptsdy". Sometimes hyper vigilance is a good thing - you can see what's coming long before others do.

the hardest part is figuring out what is ptsd and what is actual warnings from your body.The threat assessment helps me see it from a distance and helps with balance.

That help??? :)

 

[shimmerz]

I worked on my tendency to freeze (body wise.mind wise). I couldn't shake my HV until I stopped freezing up. Once that happened the HV left fairly naturally.

 

[PreciousChild]

I think I understand what you're saying @Abstract - my perceptions of threat are almost always of an interpersonal nature versus a physical one. Discerning real and perceived threats is a hard one for me too because I used to always be on the look out for threats, and saw them when they probably weren't there. In my life, so many times, I remember being all worked up about someone being against me, only to learn that that the person wasn't. For example, I quit a job one time in a huff because I was convinced that the boss was unhappy with me, and felt that everyone thought I was not good enough. I felt a critical gaze all the time and I finally couldn't take it any more. When I told the boss I was leaving, he pointed to his assistant and asked, 'it was because of her, wasn't it?' (The assistant boss was kind of blunt to people). It hit me like a bucket of cold water the realization that all the negativity I was perceiving was all "in my head." To my shame, I let him blame her because I had no way of explaining what my real reason was. But no matter how many times I get that reality check, I can still create phantom threats that seem absolutely real.

I think just doing the work of healing has naturally helped ease my HV. But earlier on in my journey, I remember one thought that I learned from a therapist that helped me to begin to put distance between my perception of threat and reality. If my perceptions were running away from me, I would ask myself, 'would you do that'? Can you imagine him/her doing that to someone else? Often, I could not imagine doing that bad thing I was perceiving or that person I was fearing doing it. For example, if I was feeling paranoid that a colleague was trying to undermine me, I would think really hard about whether I could imagine her doing that to someone else. If she is a decent human being, usually it's very clear that they would never do that thing you're worried about. But I do have a colleague who does sabotage people, etc. So I knew that some of the things she did was real and not merely perceived.

Also, from reading (I forget which book), I picked up on the fact that if I'm thinking in terms of "they", it is almost 100% the case that it is merely perceived. There is no "they". A group of people do not act in coordination (usually) to "get" you, at least after high school age. The 'they' is just a construct that serves to voice the threat.

I hope I made some kind of sense.

 

[IceQueencop]

@Abstract - good question.

I’m going to tell you to first, rule out the physical. This is my T’s construct: HALT. Ask yourself, am I;

H: hungry
A: angry
L: lonely
T: tired.

I have found that I have trouble now, discerning between a physical discomfort, like hunger and a physical threat, like danger. So, I wind up giving people the hairy eyeball because I’ve convinced myself they are a threat, when really, I’m just hungry.

I am going to validate some of what you are feeling, though. Maybe your working environment is a toxic one. If that’s the case, then I think you have to ask whether you’re willing to live with that negativity, regardless of whether it’s hv or not. Maybe write down the things you are experiencing over time and compare them to @Freida’s checklist. Delusional thinking can be part of PTSD hv, too.

Regarding the dude by the bushes. That’s just bad news. Definitely trust your instincts on that one.

For me, hv is usually a buzzing in my brain. But, I did see two cars trying to run each other off the road yesterday. It was a very different adrenal rush.

 

[Abstract]

Thank you so much everyone! I guess what I am looking at is essentially a way through what people usually call being triggered but in my experience is sometimes being in hypervigilance or merely being symptomatic. How to tell truth from ptsd. Fight freeze run defend or is it more appropriate to just be. That would have been a better title. How does it look to not react in PTSD. But maybe that isnt realistic since I do have ptsd. Maybe that is still denial.

My default, even pre knowing about ptsd is to distrust my instincts and appear reasonable and rational. I am also in an environment which requires a veneer of reasonable and rational. Unfortunately others around us are often not reasonable or rational, in truth. Even if they try to appear so. The world is infested or riddled with people who are the opposite at best. Or way worse. And sometimes I am in avoidance and in freeze of some sort and not at all experiencing my instincts.

My fundamental personality traits are objectivity rationality and self control. I don't have a habit of foisting my opinion on others. I guess I am fascinated to see how others react and understand how that would be. To relook at my own approaches.

I have done a lot of work on assertiveness etc but am starting to think my need for moderation is interfering with my ability to navigate the world as well as I could be doing. It may still be crippling me. My lack of trust in my feelings and thoughts. I am wondering how I would be if the hypervigilance, trigeredness and other stuff was not in the background. Would I not be over compensating and therefore react much more. I seriously think that may be the case. Ironic as it should be the opposite way around. I guess I also come from a background of serious freeze reactions and avoidance reactions, and historically a lack of assertiveness when it came to self (not others). Some of these things have served me well to a point. Have hidden much of my stuff for a long time but probably did the opposite at a certain point. Stopped me from progressing. If that makes sense. I am sick and tired of not trusting myself and of catering to pathological people. Even when it would ideally serve me to do so. I am sick of avoidance and managing myself. Of hiding who I am and what I am.

 

[Abstract]

Follow them around for a while then flat out ask ask them what they are doing. Lol seriously - the only way to know I'm safe is to treat them like a threat so I may as well have fun with it

lol, I have looked at this many times and am so confused! I dont flat out ask anything - until this last week, I do always see everyone as a threat and plan accordingly. That serves me well often but is exhausting. I also dont let anyone know as want them to see me as calm and rational. In truth I am not. But I think it interferes when people are more overt. Or in fact are covert. I maybe dont call them on it. Present situation I am in fact protecting myself better than the 7 people and tactically am in a more vulnerable position. That doesnt mean I am still not holding back. I can see what is happening from experience, they cant.

The benefit is that your project turns out way better because of the extra planning and you circumvent what they are trying to do. And it really doesn't take all that much extra time. I worked in what could lovingly be called a snake pit so it became second nature to assume "someone" was going to try to derail me along the way.

Snake pit. Check. Unfortunately snakepit pretending to be civilised normal culture. The nuances or my culture and industry means I cant just take the gloves off and look normal.

hat translates into body language that says "pick an easier victim asshat."

I love that. Dont think I am good at it. But maybe am in a way. But it doesn't feel powerful like you describe it and I don't think I do it to protect me on my own very well. Just others.
I do this terrible calm direct thing that seems to unnerve them sometimes. Guy with a knife in a bus (recently happened). Bus load of people looking away while he threatens bus driver. Me: standing telling him calmly its not the way to behave and that the driver is just doing his job. After a while whole bus gets on feet and starts confronting him. But I am the one at the front speaking to start.

So reaction to the dude in the bush is to listen carefully and cautiously. what happens if he is just shy and I hurt his feelings or look psycho. I engaged way too long and potentially put myself at risk.

he hardest part is figuring out what is ptsd and what is actual warnings from your body.The threat assessment helps me see it from a distance and helps with balance.

So I am still trying to get my head around this. Actually start always from believing your instincts? ??

Thank you so much.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks @shimmerz Does that mean that you can now accurately evaluate any situation for real threat past ptsd? Is it all gone? How do you do that? No pressure to answer. For me it seems to have come in stages. Near total dissociation from threat through dissociation, avoidance lack of awareness etc. Dont know then dont have to chose how to react. Unless it came to others. Different situation and different reaction.

Then various levels of giving up all those things and trying to engage in the world appropriately minute by minute. In a conscious and appropriate way. Past Ptsd. Hard,