Micro-dosing On Psychadelics

[joeylittle]

I also know EXACTLY the professional implications of a therapist or doctor discussing the use of a substance that is currently illegal. That's what happens when one serves, for YEARS, on a Disciplinary Committee.

Yes, that's just not the situation that the posters were outlining - therefore, it's not relevant.

And what I am proposing is that this information which is provided to clients could well provide them hope for the future.
I don't believe it is unethical or illegal to discuss a very well studied potential solution with clients.

Correct.

Yes, therapists/psychiatrists can discuss treatment options with clients that are currently in trials but not yet approved.
Yes, it's important for the therapist to be clear that they are talking about participation in clinical trials, not just going off on one's own.
No, therapists should not recommend that their clients break the law.
Yes, that is the sort of thing that causes disciplinary action.
No, that's not what's happening here.

No need to keep going with this line of discussion.

 

[Anarchy]

The original article that I linked to was even broader and covered people who are individually experimenting with microdosing In the hope of performance enhancement :rolleyes:

My personal guess is that those ones are in for a nasty crash, and if they have the personal insight at that point, they might achieve a personal reconciliation and acceptance with who and what they actually are, and that a pill, potion, shroom, or big plates full of beans :sick: several times a day, isn't going to change that who and what.

I find the idea of stimulants like MDMA (and chocolate?:woot:) that seem to selectively stimulate the frontal cortex and perhaps quieten the limbic brain, fascinating
And perhaps a way to be able to approach trauma memories in therapy more safely and more productively in the future.

I'm almost finished Sacks' book "Awakenings" now, and despite the subject of parkinsonian patients who were mostly trapped in a total institution, seeming far removed from our members here,

I can see massive overlaps in hopes and experiences

Sacks' main group of people in the book, were rendered parkinsonian as young people, by a viral encephalitis. One of them at only thirty months old.

Later In the book he compares and contrasts those people and their coping skills and responses to treatment, with people who became parkinsonian naturally in middle and old age.

We have something similar here, with people traumatised in infancy, childhood, teens and as adults, and we're different In those respects as well as our differences as individuals.

I'd better add as well that in excess, L dopa can certainly have psychedelic results :wacky:

What is excess? Sacks thoroughly demolishes any ideas that doses can be titrated,


Or that individual responses can be abstracted from and results expressed quantitatively

 

[void]

And what I am proposing is that this information which is provided to clients could well provide them...

@shimmerz

I, too, desire that our population have hope for the future.

I don't believe that you have fully understood the intentions of my comments, but I will leave it at that, as per the above directive.

Be well.:)

Respectfully,
Void

 

[rightkindofme]

Alright, I will explain that I am talking about a non-licensed therapist (consciously so) who works with a chemist and provides illegal drugs. How do I find such a person? Well if I told you that everyone could get in trouble so I won't. I met this person through a very trusted source who is a licensed medical provider.

Yeah, everyone involved is taking legal risks. Yup. I'm not talking about one of the difficult to get into studies. I'm talking about people who are taking risks.

Why? Because all of life is a risk.

 

[Iamsensative]

So what if you decide to try and microdose before therapy. Not saying i would, but i can tell you i am quite desperate. i did drugs as a teenager and stopped when i hit 18. i dont really even drink, i tried so many meds, last one was rexulti, the weight it lifted was amazing, no fog, energy, no body pain. But what it did to my body, 20lbs in less than 4 months, i only eat to survive so this was devastating, skyrocketing cholestrol ie a heart attack waiting to happen. I just want to feel better, i just want to move forward. But anything illegal scares me. sorry for rambling.

 

[Anarchy]

But anything illegal scares me.

Unfortunately that's your tax dollars at work, serving and protecting you from the danger of being able to buy a reliable branded product from a reputable business (heroin was Bayer's brand label for their diamorphine).

I've no first hand experience of them, but some of the younger people speak very highly of the posters of dark web market sites that sprang up when the silk road was taken down. Good pure stuff, good prices, great service and sellers keen to build good reputations

Though not without risk, you don't know that the seller you are dealing with isn't some sort of cop, and there seems to be a pattern of the site operators buggering off with the money held in the escrow account.

Regarding the actual drugs, it looks like MDMA might be the best yet, but there's never been a magic bullet ( I'm personally hugely sceptical about the therapeutic usefulness of pills and potions. Recreational use or therapeutic use are both imo personal choices)

I like really strong chocolate (85%+ cocao) which contains natural amphetamine type stimulants... it's comforting effect is well known, if I really go for it, it gives me irregular heartbeat, and the shits, which isn't so good... that's the sort of strength chocolate that would give dogs seizures if they ate it. That's the closest I get to MDMA.

The stuff that I was reading by Oliver Sacks, last weekend, was really interesting (imo).

He wasn't treating trauma, though it could be argued that his patients weren't far off being traumatised by their experiences of loosing several decades out of the middle of their lives and being housed in a total institution.

He identified three stages with the drugs
An awakening and sense of incredible wellness and energy
A tribulation as some problems returned and realities of life caught up with the person
Then a sort of coming to terms with and resolution

That seems to be broadly the progression that people who go on any drug long term seem to have.

The tribulations seemed to be very personal, people who were already used almost hallucination levels of fantasy, got hallucinations. People who were already prone to anger, got the rages
People who were into reminiscence, got incontinent reminiscences
The people got more of what they already had as personal characteristics and tendencies

Sacks points out that the idea of "side effects" is pure fantasy; drugs have effects,

some effects that you perhaps want and others that you don't want. Some that almost everyone who takes the drug will get, some that fewer people will get.

They're the effects of the drug, the idea that some are somehow "side" is wishful thinking.

 

[shimmerz]

Yeah, everyone involved is taking legal risks. Yup. I'm not talking about one of the difficult to get into studies. I'm talking about people who are taking risks.

Why? Because all of life is a risk.

I have walked this path as well. It was either I would sink into insanity if I didn't try what felt right to me (legal or not), or I had to do whatever I could to pull myself out. Like it or not, legal or not, it has helped me.

It's my body and mind. I get to decide what risks I take when I am literally staring down the barrel of insanity.

 

[Isobel Wolf]

Got back into psychedelics for therapeutic reasons during a rough period and they helped me push that reset so much. Microdosing LSD when I can get it is still just brilliant for anhedonia.

I like DMT so much I'm going to take measures to make sure I always have some on hand. Low commitment, visual, blissful. Perfect.

Obviously I have been on the periphery of this world for too long in my isolation that 4-HO-MET, 4-ACO-DMT and 4-HO-MIPT is alien terminology to me, but as pharm rubs me wrong. Like, makes me creatively DEAD. Seeing as I have consistently good results-even the bad trips where I take too much and go to Hell and back, I neeeed to incorporate the psychedelics into my life on a long term basis. Just a matter of

Pleased to see there is a proud psychonaut contingent here!

 

[Hope69]

I micro dose (mushrooms). I remain extremely grateful for the information that people have shared. I educated myself through forums, books, and by asking direct questions to two people who have been involved clinical trials and research (the therapists, not the clients) as well as by asking others who use psychedelics for healing purposes what they have found helpful or not. ANd I made my choices based on that information.

I have also used MDMA 3 times to address specific traumas. I did it on my own, with a friend who had never used MDMA, as a safe sitter.That is not ideal. But it helped me and it was what I could arrange given the restricted nature of the clinical trials. Lots of demand and very few spaces open. I would not suggest this to anyone as I can't say how another will react nor if that person can navigate an altered state safely, but I'm glad I did it and will do it again.

The results have been so much better and the information far more reliable (in terms of my experience) than information and recommendations I received from medical professionals regarding psych meds (which I have used; one anti anxiety, 3 different SSRIS and seroquel) Because a drug is given by prescription does not, in itself, make it safe or beneficial.

Similarly, psychedelics are not necessarily beneficial or helpful to everyone.
I believe that consumers need to share their experiences both positive and negative. A great many people have lost their lives while using prescription medication, while others have seen benefits. We can only learn by sharing this information.
I'm sharing the fact that I use psychedelics and will continue to use them as long as it feels right for me because it has been extremely helpful (and not because I think anyone or everyone should go this route) but, again, I am eternally grateful that others were brave enough to continue research and, when necessary, do what they had to to heal themselves so that new information and options can be brought into the light.

My goal is to be whole and healthy, I'll do whatever I feel I need to get there. I don't think this is the right forum to share details, but information can be found through many sources and if this interests someone, then I would recommend doing some thorough research before making any decisions or jumping to conclusions based on lack of knowledge or fear.

 

[janelouise]

I micro dose (mushrooms). I remain extremely grateful for the information that people have shared. I edu...

I am really interested in this microdosing as I have struggled with many traumas and I'm just sick of living feeling terrified (my latest episode).which no amount of tranquilizers even touch. I would be so grateful if you could share more about your own struggles and what and how much you use. I too am extremely desperate for help and believe me I've tried every antidepressant, trauma therapy going. I have researched this a lot and signed up for a clinical trial which has now been cancelled due to lack if funding, thank you drug companies! I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you.

 

[Hope69]

I would be so grateful if you could share more about your own struggles and what and how much you use

Based on my experience, micro dosing doesn't cure trauma or the symptoms of trauma such as anxiety and depression, it does help me heal by changing the way my brain is working. But I still have to address the specifics (in my case I would say lack of trust, insecure attachments, learning to self sooth, etc...)
to learn about the how too s of micro dosing, check out james Fadimans website, he is the expert. He presented at the psychedelic science conference. Based on his studies, he found those suffering from trauma related anxiety (if I remember the talk correctly) found less benefit than those suffering from more depressive symptoms. I signed up for his self guided study and he literally responded to my email question within minutes which was really helpful.
For me, micro dosing sometimes amplified unfinished business, so I would choose days that I did not have to work, dose, and allow those parts of myself to converse or I would dance to move the emotions through me.
MDMA has been hugely helpful, but not an instant cure.
I can also suggest reddit, there is a sub reddit on MDMA self healing as well as sub reddits for micro dosing where you can ask many questions.
Trauma therapy is helpful, specifically for me somatic therapies since much of the energy, hurt or whatever, is not "rational" yet it exists in my body and it needs some release or needs caring attention. The psychedelics have made connecting with those stuck states more accessible and effective.
I also contacted a therapist who works with MAPS for integration and found a community in my hometown of those using psychedelics for healing. I'm hesitant to recommend psychedelics since no one can predict exactly how a substance will affect you, but so far, I have had more benefit and less horrible side effects than from any prescription med I tried.
I think it is important to share information since we are all looking to heal. Both positive and less positive experiences need to be brought forward so that people can make informed choices about both prescription and non prescription medicines. Let us know how it goes and I wish the best! I hope others share as well.

 

[Anarchy]

JaneLouise,
Thanks for reminding me, to check out Timothy Leary. He was prof of psychology at Harvard, and after trying mushrooms (he was never the same afterwards;)), he began advocating for using psychedelics in therapy.

From Wikipedia: (fair usage, less than one paragraph)

an experience that drastically altered the course of his life.[35] In 1965, Leary commented that he had "learned more about ... (his) brain and its possibilities ... [and] more about psychology in the five hours after taking these mushrooms than ... in the preceding 15 years of studying and doing research in psychology."[35]