News News Article - Abused Children May Get Different Form Of Ptsd

[Springer80]

And I HONESTLY think the superhuman label is NOT ridiculous. Hell, to go through what we went through and still joke about it ....

Hollywood has messed up the concepts of Ubermensch and Nietzsche's superman. But still, I want a cape,

LOUISE BOURGEOIS :inlove:

 

[Springer80]

As far as these things being genetic... I come from a long line of abuse. ... Both of my parents were broken before they found one another. I absolutely believe they were taught and went on to teach their very broken behaviors. I'm not sure they were capable of change by the time I knew them.

I just wanted to continue this...I don't know my parents exact histories...I do know my mother had a bad nervous stammer from early secondary school into college/uni. Which I think is pretty indicative of something, although she has never mentioned specifics, just that she was shy. My father was a nut job, born of two very pent up people.

However, the distinction I would like to make is this....the word genetic normally implies in lay-mans terms that this behaviour is carried in the tissue in the cells structure of our being, from the very beginning. I think that most of us would agree that children are not born bad. So I'm just a little cautious of the potential for either, some scienctisits or doctors to start banying the idea that we are a sub category of human, eugenics style or for people who are in the throws of desperation to believe themselves to be 'rotten' in some way.

How I interpret this is that on a genetic/cellular level we are structurally OK, however, our parents bodies, especially our mothers nervous system affects how we operate and our surroundings combined with this are like a tuning fork which calibrate how those structural gene processes operate.

 

[anthony]

Thank you for posting this. I think there is too little distinction between childhood trauma and PTSD on this forum, and I think the distinction is VERY important.

We'll agree to disagree on that one then. Whilst the study is interesting, people skip over the relevant words and facts, often concluding something that isn't... "loci to a much larger proportion in the childhood abuse (69%) vs. the non-child abuse-only group (34%)."

The above single portion already claims a genome change in non-abuse children, with a larger one in abused.

A single study doesn't achieve anything yet, nor define this as fact. They simply could have stumbled upon a mix of participants who happened to back the numbers... again, even non-abused had a genome change.

It doesn't actually validate any such theory at this point, yet is an interesting course of study to see what further data accumulates from further studies. Will they validate this, or contradict it? Time will tell.

People need to stop drawing conclusions from a single study, instead using a meta-analysis to draw such conclusions which provide a more robust outcome and likelihood of fact.

This is still no different from much more important answers science lacks at this stage, being why does one child abused get PTSD, yet another doesn't? They still don't have the answer to that... just theories, however; you posit this study about genome as relevant for a distinction. I think not at this stage. Interesting.... absolutely. Substantial, factual, actual? No...

 

[rightkindofme]

I'm not drawing conclusions from a single study. A single study is affirming conclusions I already believed. Does that mean the study or my conclusions are correct? Not necessarily but I would still prefer to label my assumptions accurately.

Suicide and incest both run up and down my family tree. Why do we have such a strong genetic predisposition? I think that the people in my family have to very consciously step back and learn non abusive behaviors in order to change but no one but me believes it is worth the effort. They believe they are fine. Our family has always been this way--obviously I am the one with the problem.

The idea of loyalty to anyone other than myself is utterly bizarre to me. I am simply too selfish for that. I don't feel attachment in the ways that other people seem to. I maintain relationships because I make very cold calculations about the relationship serving my needs.

I have a lot of theories that predate this study. :) every one likes some good confirmation bias and all.

 

[Pencil]

Anthony

I'm not basing anything on one study. The particular findings of this particular study are not of particular interest to me. The mere fact that the study is being done means that the researchers suspect they're onto something - and that something is that there ARE differences, and now they are simply trying to pinpoint those differences.

Take Harlow's study with the monkeys: Is it only now - after a few monkeys had been damaged beyond repair that we can with certainty say that maternal deprivation is damaging? Harlow did the study to prove what everybody already knew. Scientists do this for a living.

So, I agree fully that one study is not conclusive. But I think that there is enough 'common wisdom' regarding the differences between childhood trauma and adult-onset PTSD to merit investigation - and that conclusive evidence will be found. Having said that, I'm also sad that it is once again (how can it be otherwise?) following the medical model. As Springer said - can you fix lack of human love with a pill?

 

[Pencil]

I have announced in groups of rabid feminists who were saying that no one ever has the right to make rape jokes, "Actually after twelve rapists and many dozens of rapes I think I've earned the right. So, has anyone heard any good ones? I should add to my repertoire."

Okay, this is going to sound weird. I dreamed last night that I was quoting you on this.

 

[Springer80]

Okay, this is going to sound weird. I dreamed last night that I was quoting you on this.

Dont get it Pencil? Explain for my contextually challenged little brain box would you?

 

[Pencil]

This thread / conversation obviously 'triggered' (not in BAD sense used here) in my brain, and so I dreamed I was angry about something and I said, 'As someone said ..... ' and I quoted RKofM. I don't remember the detail of the dream, though.

 

[Abstract]

Gosh. A little tricky as I find the original information very interesting but feel quite guarded and a little uncomfortable about certain comparative tones to the discussion after. I hope that makes sense. Also not entirely comfortable with comparisons between sexes and saying sexual abuse it worse than other trauma's. If that is what was meant!

Also. Without reading the full original research I think it's important to note that genetics and epigenitics are two different things so if anyone isn't familiar with the difference it may be important to read up on it.

Lastly that it is also important to understand that when it comes to genetic or epigenetic influences that it is very rarely a case of A results in B. Its much more complex than that. It normally means A predisposes or is potentially triggered by other factors to result in B. Human beings are way more complex than just genetics.

Its unlikely to be like a hereditary disease and therefore I would not imagine (with my limited non expert knowledge) that there would be a genetic solution.

Very interesting though! When I find my brain I want to look at it properly.

 

[rightkindofme]

I don't think that anyone was trying to imply that sexual abuse is "worse" so much as if you had a very disrupted childhood you never had a "before trauma" childhood portion of your life where your brain settled in to how it "should" behave. That doesn't make any of my traumas "worse" but it means that I haven't had much time where I haven't been in panic mode.

Does that make a little more sense? It's not about it being "worse" it is just that I never had good coping methods to begin with.

 

[a3a2]

I went from white trash to Regency manners. It's a real trip I'll tell you.

Me, too. Even the comment about having the politest kids you could ever imagine. When I am around my family, they say things like "Your kids are so.......NICE."

 

[Abstract]

Been thinking a lot recently about how differently PTSD can present, in some ways. Because of the difference in causes, triggers, how developed the persons personality was at the time of trauma and much more. And how much that affects things such as what works and what type of relationship problems happen etc. How we cope with dealing with these things.

There is of course enormous amounts that are similar. It just seems to me the stumbling blocks and misunderstandings often happen because of the differences. There are so many examples of it swimming around in my mind.