Plan B, Or Is It C? University Troubles...

[Orglethorp]

I'm just finishing up the final exams for my 3rd academic term of engineering in the Electrical & Computer Engineering program, and I'm worrying about whether or not I'll be allowed to continue in the program.

The program alternates between academic terms and work experience terms, with no summer breaks, starting in term 3. This means the fall semester is always for students in 1st year, term 3 and term 6. Winter (January) is for 1st year, term 5 and term 8. Spring (May) is for 1st year (course repeats & slow-track), term 4 and term 7.

For terms 3-8, 5-6 of your courses are considered your "core courses" (most students take 6-7 courses). To be promoted to the next term, you must have 50% or above in all courses with an average of 60% or above between the core courses. If you have the 60%+ average but fail a core course, you write an extra exam. If you don't get the 60% (regardless of whether you passed everything or not), you fail the term. If you fail the term, you may or may not be allowed to go on your work term in the following semester. It's up to the employer. If you still want to be an engineering student, you apply back to the faculty after 2 semesters, to re-enter at the term you failed.

Now, all of these courses put a weight of 50% or higher on the final exams. This is despite having as many as 6 major tests throughout the term, up to 10 labs, and up to 10 projects, not including readings and smaller assignments. (Physics had nearly 30 assignments.)

Going into exams, I knew my circuit analysis course would be tough, but I thought all 4 other core course exams would go really well. Math, as it turns out, really sucked. Add that to yesterday's (predictably) horrible circuits exam, and I'm now relying on Monday's programming exam to keep my average at or above 60. This is despite having a 70 before exams, since they're worth so much.

So, I'm planning ahead. I have a plan B. This school offers joint majors in Computer Science and various other science disciplines, including both Pure Mathematics and Applied Mathematics. I really like the sound of those options, I can still do cool, nerdy, challenging things with a degree like that, and my transfer credits from my previous life as a history/psychology student will actually cover most of my elective credits. I could possibly be done a Comp Sci degree before I would finish the engineering degree, even if I stay in the faculty this semester.

I'm worrying about what happens if I fail this semester, though. Should I fight to keep my work term, or should I take courses? I'm not sure if this company will keep me if I fail, and I'm not sure if this is a good job to have on my resume if I don't end up in an engineering field.

If I fail, this will be the second time I've dropped out of an engineering program. I was diagnosed with PTSD during my first semester of university, back in 2006, and I couldn't handle the program then. That was at a different university. I went back to engineering because I felt like I'd been cheated out of something I really wanted to do, and I wasn't being challenged as a history student. If I fail out this time, am I going to have the same feelings of being cheated out of something?

If I take courses toward a Computer Science degree in the mean time, I'm not sure if I'd apply back into engineering or not. I'm not sure if I'll love the Comp Sci degree enough. I'm also not sure that I'd apply back to the same discipline, or that I'd get the same discipline even if I tried. I do know I would be pretty crushed if I did decide to re-apply and didn't get in.

Being that I'm 25, turning 26 in February, I'm also not sure that I would want to re-apply for class of 2018. It takes 4 years of experience on top of a degree to get licensed as an engineer. I'll be 30 in 2018. Work terms can only account for a maximum of 1 year of the 4 required years of experience. A computer science degree could have me finishing by 2016 and actually being done in 2016.

I really don't know what to do!

 

[DMerish]

I'm unclear as to how your school's curriculum relates to PTSD. And I'm not sure if anyone on this forum can help you decide what to do. Is there an educational counselor at your school that helps students navigate these things?

 

[scout86]

What do you want to do with the rest of your life? What degree do you need to do it? What are the reasons you're having problems meeting the program's expectations? (BTW, that sounds like a pretty confusing program!)

Seems to me you need answers to those questions and you're the one most likely to have the answers.

 

[Eleanor]

Take what appeals from this, leave whatever doesn't:

Bottom line from a 20 year plus veteran university professor: It doesn't matter what degree you get. Really. Your life will turn out differently depending on what you do, but which will be "better" and which "worse?" No way to tell. In fact, there IS no fact of the matter. Your life will be what you make it with the education you have, if you get more, if you totally quit now.

If you want to do "cool geeky stuff" and you are good at such things, if you are willing to work hard and carefully and be responsible - you have no worries about employment.

So, there are no right or wrong answers. There is only: what you actually want to do. As @scout86 so wisely says, you are the one who will know the answer to that question. You don't have to decide now. You could wait for grades to post.

For what it is worth, if 60% is a passing grade I am guessing your school is not all that interested in effective teaching. I am not saying you are not learning a lot (it sounds like you are!) but institutions that grade in this way generally are not holding their faculty accountable for being effective teachers and are relying on students being good independent learners. If my guess is right, you are best off out of there sooner rather than later. Save the money and learn independently or on someone else's dime. I vote for graduation in 2016.:bookworm:;)

You are a wonder @Orglethorp! Keep up the good work.:tup:

 

[Hashi]

I really don't know what to do!

My suggestion would be to wait and see what your exam results are. You might well be putting yourself through all this worrying and replanning for nothing. I'd save your energy and focus for studying for your programming exam.

 

[greenleaf]

This sort of issue is totally relevant for a lot of young people with ptsd, imho.

I feel that degrees do matter more for us women than men, especially if you're interested in working in a "non-traditional" field. Women aren't accepted as easily just for being capable, smart people - we have to have the exact qualifications more often. imho. I could be wrong, of course, and would love studies and/or new experiences to prove me wrong on this...

I'm a computer programmer, have a pure math degree. (I think I got the degree while in survival mode from childhood stuff, before knowing the word "ptsd"...)

It's unclear to me from your post how much you feel the ptsd is affecting you at the current school and work program. If that's part of the issue, do you think the "Plan B" school will lower your stress level?

My two cents... finish a degree in whatever will give you the most options in various careers that you feel you'll really want to work in. Don't just look at the work, look at the type of environment you'll be in, and think about various things you can do with the degree in case your top choice suddenly has a dearth of positions.

A nice thing about computer science is that many, many different work environments exist, from corporate to academic to nonprofit. Some of those environments are actually likely to have nice people! I've found this last bit crucial in staying in a job long term w/cptsd.

Also, you can work computer science in with lots of other interests later; computer people can be part of a team with all sorts of other specialists, so you pick up some of that other field and get to work in it. I'd imagine this is all true of various other fields too; I don't know much about engineering workplaces.

A career counselor can be helpful but some really won't "get" anything about the ptsd stuff. You might research the experiences of women professionals in the fields you're considering; perhaps ask some for informational interviews? Sometimes you can ask questions that skirt pretty far around the actual word "ptsd" but still get a sense of the situation. Try to think how you'd feel long-term in the various circumstances - that sort of thing.

 

[Orglethorp]

Thanks for all the replies. I realize my original post was a bit unclear on certain things. I really felt like I needed to get that written out, but I was also rushing, because my boyfriend was on his way over to take me out.

What does this have to do with PTSD? Well, PTSD is always following me through my schooling, no matter what I'm trying to study. I doubt myself constantly, I tend to have panic attacks on exam days (thankfully after the exam, rather than before or during), and whenever something comes up that's difficult I can't help but ask myself why I'm still trying. When I do fail at something, then I'm constantly wondering whether I legitimately failed because I exceeded my own abilities, or if I might have done better without PTSD symptoms popping up.

If it turns out that I've failed this semester, then this will be the second time I've failed in an engineering program. I've never failed anything outside of engineering school. I don't know if this is because I haven't tried to do anything else that's the right combination difficulty, stress, and passion to let PTSD interfere this much, or if I'm actually just not cut out of engineering.

I'm interested in robotics, control systems, avionics (and aviation in general) and bio-medical technology. I want a career in one of these fields that will challenge me every day, but won't burn me out. I want a career that will allow me to live where I chose, rather than being forced to move to whichever city is most suited to the field. I want a career that will pay me well enough to own horses and to be able to support myself and future kids independently if I have to. I don't want to have to rely on anyone.

I would also really like to be done as soon as possible. I've changed my major many times and had varying course loads over the years, but I've been a university student since 2006, and I don't have a degree to show for it yet. If I fail this semester, then I'm out of the program until next fall, at which point I would be repeating this semester. I'd be adding a whole year onto my timeline, and I'd be spending the next 8 months just trying to keep myself busy.

The last year and a half studying engineering have been the toughest semesters I've ever had, academically speaking, but at least I've felt like I'm getting somewhere with my life. Over the summer, when I went back home to BC for 4 months and returned to my old job at the grocery store, I felt myself sinking into depression again. I kept having to remind myself that I was only there working that type of job, doing nothing that felt important or worthwhile, for a short time. I don't know if I could ever go back to working just for the sake of working.

 

[Chosen]

I don't have any answers for you, but I feel your pain. I've been in school since '08...I have 121 credits, no bachelor's, nowhere close to graduating, don't know what I want to do anymore since I hate the school I'm at, yet I already have 45 grand in federal student loans, so I can't really afford anything at this point...my PTSD has gotten worse and worse so it's incredibly difficult for me to do ANYTHING at this point.

I hope you're able to make the best choice for yourself...what makes you happiest and feel most fulfilled. It sure does suck to be our age (I turn 26 in May) where we practically need bachelor's degrees in order to be successful and then have so many challenges on top of that.

 

[Orglethorp]

Thanks for your support Noah. I hope things work out for you!

 

[DMerish]

If you want to do "cool geeky stuff" and you are good at such things, if you are willing to work hard and carefully and be responsible - you have no worries about employment.

If you want to do "cool geeky stuff" and you are good at such things, if you are willing to work hard and carefully and be responsible - you have no worries about employment. So, there are no right or wrong answers. There is only: what you actually want to do. As @scout86 so wisely says, you are the one who will know the answer to that question. You don't have to decide now. You could wait for grades to post.

My suggestion would be to wait and see what your exam results are. You might well be putting yourself through all this worrying and replanning for nothing. I'd save your energy and focus for studying for your programming exam.

What does this have to do with PTSD? Well, PTSD is always following me through my schooling, no matter what I'm trying to study. I doubt myself constantly, I tend to have panic attacks on exam days (thankfully after the exam, rather than before or during), and whenever something comes up that's difficult I can't help but ask myself why I'm still trying. When I do fail at something, then I'm constantly wondering whether I legitimately failed because I exceeded my own abilities, or if I might have done better without PTSD symptoms popping up.

Hi Orglethorp,

I'd think we'd all do better without PTSD, eh? ;) Symptoms like panic attacks will occur, so I guess what I was driving at was whether the educational counseling center might be able to better direct you in regards to the cirriculum being more managable. However, I understand better now that in your orgianial post you were mulling over "if" and the possiblity of choosing between continuing with engineering or switching to computer science.

I agree with Eleanor and Hashi - before making a decision wait and see what grades you get. Then consider what you think would hold your interest for the longest. For what it's worth, I was in a smiliar spot. I switched. Within two years I wished I had stuck with the area that interested me more, althought course work was harder, and doing so would have meant stretching out my course work. Shiz - I still consider going back to school, switching careers to that area . . . too old to do that now though :O_o:

Considering your former posts about your college interests, IMO stick with engineering especially since you're female.

In the end, I completely agree with Eleanor: study/work at stuff that interests you and that you've got some talent for, ". . . if you are willing to work hard and carefully and be responsible - you have no worries about employment."

 

[Eleanor]

I doubt myself constantly,

I am not remembering all the details about you (and don't have leisure to look it up right this minute) but I wonder if your PTSD might not be complicated by emotional neglect - a major symptom of which is feeling like an imposter (aka self-doubt.)

I started a thread on this (title Childhood Emotional Neglect).

It is a shot in the dark, but my goodness, it turned on some lightbulbs for me (and apparently others!) And I would bet money that an awfully high percentage of my high achieving but underconfident students suffer from this. It is totally possible to heal from, but it is different in crucial respects from PTSD treatment.

In any case, I'm on pins and needles to know how you did... :nailbiting:

Also, understanding your eagerness to get out (and affirming that!) a gentle reminder that it is not a race. There are no prizes for finishing early. (I know, I know, I seem to be contradicting myself, but ... what the hell!):D

 

[Orglethorp]

Lol, I know it's not a race. I'm just worried about realistic timing of certain things. I don't want to start a family before I'm licensed, because time off for babies means even more time lost in the licensing process, which leads to fewer years earning an engineer's salary. At the same time, I don't want to be 40 and only just starting a family. I know people are having kids later and later these days, but that doesn't change the increased risks with pregnancy at that point in life, and I'd like to live long enough to see my grandchildren reach adulthood without my own children starting families too soon. (Yeah, I know, I think way too far ahead sometimes...)