Preverbal Trauma - Infancy

[Mercy]

I'm in an odd spot about this. I had a complete hysterectomy at 26. The surgical notes of the gynocologist( an English trained ob/gyn who practices surgery is trained as general surgeon first.) said that the uterus appeared to have been sutured together down the center. I have bilateral ungual hernyia scars from surgery when I was a 18 months or so old. That part of my memory about the hernias was told to me. I have a clear sensory memory of hands holding my thighs apart and a less clear memory of my body resting up against the arms. I don't have any other memory of this apparent rape. Odd...

 

[TLight]

I guess one just has to live it.

Still seems to me like your saying that science is saying 'if I can't remember it, then I'm falsifying and traumatizing myself.'
Well, I still go back to the brain's coping mechanisms. I completely dissociated because it was so horrific my soul could not handle it, my brain couldn't process what was occurring. Whether or not it occurred 'pre-verbal,' I really don't know. I know I was alone with the monster all day long from the time I was three. Could I talk then? I don't know. No memories at all until I'm 9 and slicing my wrists on top of the barn roof.

I do know I've gone for decades in denial while my body and mind tortured me with 'cellular level hell' and I still don't have the memories. To even broach the issue of falsifying memories, to me, is really distasteful and disrespectful of the many who have suffered with this their entire lives.

I know for a fact I did not traumatize myself. The memories are logged in non-declarative memory places and likely will be there till I die. I wish that weren't the case. But why on Earth would all this have been happening to me for oh so many years? Cause I want it to?

What an absurd presumption and the studies on it and the people that study 'falsification' of memory should be ashamed of themselves.

It's like I'm making up having Cancer and its developing cause I'm thinking about it or something? Please....

 

[Mercy]

TLight, I am bothered by the false memory advocates also. In the US,I seem to remember the original funds and grants to 'study' this came from organization to protect perps and wealthy perps themselves. My first T in the 1980's, when the issue was first declared, told me about it and not to worry about my own truth.

 

[intothelight]

When talking about "preverbal" trauma, I cannot imagine trying to put it into the context of "memories" as one has an adult. But at the same time, infants and children are traumatized and it does have an impact on their development.

I am not any type of expert, but I am a mother and also raised my nephew for a while. My children were held, fed, played with, provided boundaries and pretty much had a "normal" environment. My nephew was not held, severely neglected, sexually abused, and placed with many caregivers before the age of three. What he did or did not remember I do not know; but I do know this abuse made him incapable of forming attachments. He was diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder.

I don't know about preverbal memory, but there is no question that preverbal trauma can have horrible and lasting affects upon the individual that suffered it.

 

[TLight]

Ok, so I've re-read Anthony's last post that science has 'proven' and the child cannot retain memories prior to around age 3.

OK, that is much more clear and more likely to not be misconstrued than the statement;

"Basically, if you can't remember it, then its not traumatizing you. You are traumatizing you by trying to remember something not there, or trying to even falsify memories at any extent to make sense of this new information."

I would sincerely like this statement admitted to and rescinded. This is not about being right or a case of semantics. This was a very damaging and untrue statement.

 

[anthony]

The statement still holds true Tlight from psychological science. If your brain physically cannot remember something, then the brain cannot traumatize you from a memory that does not exist.

I believe you are confusing this with, as an adult, you're traumatizing yourself trying to remember something based on information given later in life... there is a vast difference from what I believe you are thinking vs. medical fact to date.

People do this all the time Tlight, and just because you don't believe its true, doesn't make it so.

Psychology has empirical data clearly outlining and proving false memories, especially under specific conditions. What you have done, is taken a statement, applied it to yourself, convinced yourself its about you, then concluded its just not true.

Now, take this how you will, but Tlight, your personal feelings, mine as well, have nothing to do with medical science which demonstrates empirical data to provide current fact. You can deny all you want, but that does not change fact.

If you took the time to go read about posttraumatic memory, then actually extend yourself that bit further to read the very clear empirical evidence cited and verified (not just any studies, but studies cited by experts in that field), people are fed false memories, ie. an event, then left alone with that event, they can completely develop the entire event or specifics within the event, just because they got told it happened at a young age that they cannot remember.

Then... go do your own research on the subject and cross into both sides of the fence and evaluate all data on the subject, and you may understand the brain a little further than I think you do at present in relation to traumatic memory.

Do this with an already highly traumatized person, ie. complex trauma sufferers who easily psychologically manipulate themselves more often than not, and suddenly they have created an entire story to an event they got told about in adulthood, based on a childhood event, and now claim it completely as a full memory of an event.

Again, you may think this isn't reality, but this is fact. I cannot rescind science Tlight, regardless how much you disagree with it and choose to apply something to yourself personally, it does not change fact.

 

[Mercy]

I do have two preverbal memories that I have never heard about from any family member probably because they had no way to know about it.

My mother was Bipolar, violent, neglectful and distant. I remember lying in a crib, and without words, seeing pictures of what would happen if I cried. I was cold and hungry. I chose not to cry. I saw in pictures being scalded, or penetrated. I chose to turn my head to look out the window next to the crib. There was a maple tree with many layers of different colors of green leaves moving to the breeze. As an adult, I think about that moment and give thanks to God for making me such a tender crib mobile.

I'm in an odd spot about this. I had a complete hysterectomy at 26. The surgical notes written by the gynocological surgeon said that the uterus appeared to have been sutured together down the center. I have bilateral ungual hernyia scars from surgery when I was a 18 months or so old. That part of my memory about the hernias was told to me. I have a clear sensory memory of hands holding my thighs apart and a less clear memory of my body resting up against the arms. I don't have any other memory of this apparent rape.

Any comments, Anthony?

 

[anthony]

My mother was Bipolar, violent, neglectful and distant. I remember lying in a crib, and without words, seeing pictures of what would happen if I cried. I was cold and hungry. I chose not to cry. I saw in pictures being scalded, or penetrated. I chose to turn my head to look out the window next to the crib. There was a maple tree with many layers of different colors of green leaves moving to the breeze. As an adult, I think about that moment and give thanks to God for making me such a tender crib mobile.

When and where did this memory come to you?

when I was a 18 months or so old. That part of my memory about the hernias was told to me. I have a clear sensory memory of hands holding my thighs apart and a less clear memory of my body resting up against the arms. I don't have any other memory of this apparent rape.

How did you come to rape from mentioning a medical procedure you had performed at 18 months old? Was this a confirmed rape as the cause for the procedure?

You also stated, you have no memory. So that kind of goes inline with medicine. Tissue memory and sensory is not actual memory. I believe research is quite valid that tissue stores memory irrespective or age. It is one known cause to be a real issue in adulthood, as people have somatic pain in an area, and sometimes find out later in life from a parent or family member that something happened in early childhood to you in that area. Some never find out the answer, and trying to explore it often only leads to false memories or memory implantation.

Therapy has very clear rules for very good reasons... its just many therapist disregard them and plant thoughts freely which an emotionally subjective brain then creates upon. They do it for self gain, thinking their helping, all sorts of nasty reasons.

 

[Mercy]

When and where did this memory come to you?

I have always had it and calm myself even today by looking up through the leaves. I am an icon painter and so spend the majority of my time working non-verbally.

How did you come to rape from mentioning a medical procedure you had performed at 18 months old? Was this a confirmed rape as the cause for the procedure?

The babyhood surgery was done by the family Dr. He later was my godfather and Special Uncle, one of my consistant rapists. He did much to hide the evidence of abuse from the different senarios in which I was sold.

I talked with the surgeon years later. She had kept the path report because she had never seen anything like it. According to her the probable procedure went like this. Incisions made on either side on the inner pelvic area would have allowed a surgeon to draw out the hemoraging uterus and sew it together. At the end of the repair, both the incisions would have been used to reattach the tendons that keep the uterus in place.

Therapy has very clear rules for very good reasons... its just many therapist disregard them and plant thoughts freely which an emotionally subjective brain then creates upon. They do it for self gain, thinking their helping, all sorts of nasty reasons.

Yeah, That's why I started out in Art therapy group. I could trust what came out of me to be authentic. I had experienced too much Psychological manipulation to ever really completely trust talk therapy. I was also very careful not to read books of other people's traumas or watch crime TV shows. I was protecting myself, yes, but for the purpose of keeping strictly to my stuff. I avoided 'cross-polination', 'cross-polution'

Thank you so much for taking the time to read the post. Did anybody ever tell you that you are their North Star. H-mmmm Can you see the north star from where you live?

 

[anthony]

As I don't like to guess, I will ask...

The babyhood surgery was done by the family Dr. He later was my godfather and Special Uncle, one of my consistant rapists. He did much to hide the evidence of abuse from the different senarios in which I was sold.

So basically, presuming based on later physical doctors reports, and that this Dr who did the surgery also happened to be a later abuser, it is presumed that he penetrated you at 18 months of age causing the damage, then fixing the damage, then later in life continued back as one of your abusers. Is this accurate based on what I am reading?

If so... then the guy should have his fingers, balls & penis cut off... just personally. Is he dead or had his license revoked?

Did anybody ever tell you that you are their North Star. H-mmmm Can you see the north star from where you live?

Your welcome... and no, not from the Southern Hemisphere to my knowledge.

 

[Nicolette]

Great work making the effort to work through this with Anthony Mercy rather than react emotionally. Well done!

 

[Mercy]

As I don't like to guess, I will ask...

So basically, presuming based on later physical doctors reports, and that this Dr who did the surgery also happened to be a later abuser, it is presumed that he penetrated you at 18 months of age causing the damage, then fixing the damage, then later in life continued back as one of your abusers. Is this accurate based on what I am reading?

Yes, this Dr. was a consistent abuser for years beginning at 3yrs old even during times when my mother was sane. Full penetration was not allowed younger than that, so they just tied our knees together and used that space.

I was so well programmed that if he staying over, I would wait for him in the nursery, listening for the suite door to open. Then, we would go quietly down the hall into his room. I would go back to the nursery on tippy toes when he was done. I tried to get myself cleaned up. If I left any sticky stuff behind, I would lie to the nursemaid that it came from a candy I dropped.

I don't know who that first perp was and wouldn't even want to try to guess. What if I was wrong? Even though many of those who came to planned events were nationally well known, I will never identify any of them. There is just too much room for error on my part. Now with photos of their chest hair patterns, maybe. ; )