Relationship With Beloved Child Who Condones Abuser

[Deleted member 12723]

((GLORIA))
Everyone had so many wise things to say. I had a son. He was a alcoholic. His life was going downhill. He had a terrible temper. He would call and sometimes I was'nt up to his phone calls. He was killed in a motorcyle accident. He had called me and I did'nt pick up the phone. I will never have another conversation with him. Yes he was messed up, yes he had a horrible temper. But I would give anything to be able totalk to him again.

I wish you the best possible outcome in your decisions that you are in the process of making.

Your son is a grown up now. We do not know what tommorow will bring. You have some serious issues to sort through. I am sorry that the anger is coming out now when you need to be calm and rational. You are normal to feel the rage. No one in your position would feel anything but the anger.

But your son is grown. I hope it does'nt come to cutting him off. You need some boundries for the abusive behaviors. Please keep on writing about what you are going through. It will help and it looks like you are getting alot of good support here. ((HUG))

 

[mamachick]

Emotional abuse is harder to define and recover from and it is path of the course when living with an addict. Even with simple things like you are focused on the addict's behaviours and dramas so you are emotionally absent for you children. The very nature of addiction means their father was emotionally absent for his daughters. Neglect and abandonment are forms of child abuse.

Not having had approrpriate parenting yourself means you passed down elements of you own abusive childhood because if you didn't get it you don't have it to give.

Ms Spock -I noticed when you quoted me, I thought you left out a major sentence-I remarried in 86. Anywany-husband was not addict, not abusive, not adultress. None of the 3 A's exist. None the less, dysfunctional (neglectful of marraige). Just wanted to clarify.

I know it is hard to read and grasp the entire content of long posts, I know I have difficulty. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify because in my attempt to summarize, may have been confusing.

 

[mamachick]

I do feel a tad sad at your 'It is up to them to report their rape by him, though you "guess" he wouldn't rape anyone else.' I felt like crying when I read that.

Please do not feel sad about this Ms Spock, it is actually a huge step toward a healthier attitude.

I have worked with many perps that abuse their wifes and partners in every way imaginable. They often rape in their course of abuse. They do not rape their neighbor, or the woman from the grocery store. They do not hide out in the bushes. A man that rapes his "property" as he see's it, often would not do that to anyone else, just as he doesnt hit anyone else, not his boss, not the waitress, not his parents. That is my judgement of this man, and likely a good one. I do not sit up and night worrying about this.

If he did cause harm to some other woman-she has the right, just as I have, to report it to police or to keep silent. By todays standards, it may be prosecutable. In my day, it was not. Should such a situation arise and the police had such a report anywhere in the country, the police have the computers to see he was once married to me, they have the ability to track me down (I live in the same city) and ask me the questions to determine his patterns. They also have the ability to supeona me. In my opinion, this is a much more rational idea that my worrying about who else he may have hurt. It is not my responsibility to protect all the women of the world, only those asking for help. Therefore, I counseled women who were victims of domestic abuse for about 10 years. I found it very rewarding to take what I am most passionate about, use my understanding of self empowerment, and give it back to the community. I have done my work.

I know this is difficult to understand but I have fully forgiven this man. He was 19 and I was 17 when we married. He was the product of a bi-polar father and a witchy mother. He had many hardships, none of which he had any insight to recognize. I got out after a few years. One day at a time, I worked on myself and my new family. Part of my work for my self was recognizing my ability to empathize with others and find forgiveness. (sure it would be different if I remained victimized by him.)

I had a good life and opportunity to grow. I will never forget where I have been, but I outgrew the need for it to define and control who I am. After some years went by there was a death that put us together at the funeral. That is when I actually recognized that he no longer held any power over me. I saw him as a borken man. Once he was a little boy that depended on parents to care for him and protect him. But thats not how his life went either. He is now 55 and dying of pleural fibrosis. He is on oxygen. He has little relationship with his only daughter and it is only since his diagnosis that he has reached out to her. My oldest daughter will loose her father to death in the next couple of years.

I cannot today, or any day in the past, think of a good reason to report any of his abusive behavior, drag him through the courts, put myself in the public eye, and expose my daughter, (and even 2 younger daughters) to a legal battle. Further, I will not expend my good energy and my sense of presence, to relive the past in an attempt to gain some sort of justice through the bowels of the legal system, only to prove what I already know.

Are some of my medical problems today attributed to the abuse?
Without a doubt.
Do I have other life long effects? Certainly.
Will the effects go away if he is punished? No
Would his punishment bring me satisfaction? Not a bit

We were two teens that had suffered abuse, looking to be loved. He was my first love. We were both kids. I am guessing that his worst punishment is the fact that he has had to live with this for all his life. He has created his own destiny, and I have created mine. He cannot and does not hurt me. We must pick and chose out battles, and that is what I modeled for my children as well. Sometimes the best thing that we can do is to let go of resentments and anger. Doing nothing is an action, is a choice, and is not a sign of weakness but strength. Sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. This is one that I have been able to forgive. I have others since that I have not mastered so well.

So please Ms Spock, Im not sure who or what you feel sad about, but please do not feel sad on my account.

 

[intothelight]

We must pick and chose out battles, and that is what I modeled for my children as well. Sometimes the best thing that we can do is to let go of resentments and anger.

Brat,

Excellent point! At some point we must move past and let go of the emotions that hurt us and hold us in the past. That is when the true healing begins. The same lesson I have been sharing with my children.

It doesn't mean that you "forget" or "allow" repeated behaviors, it is understanding that it happened and taking from it what you can that is positive, letting go of the negatives and moving forward.

Thank you for adding this critical piece (or as I view it peace)!
Deb

 

[Loloma]

I have read this whole thread as would like to comment based on my own personal experiences. My first ex raped and abused me repeatedly. He also abused our sons for years.

It took me years to pluck up the courage to leave after many attempts and a mental breakdown. In the last decade or so I can see how these incidents have affected the lives of myself and my children. I agree with Deb, violence and abuse is never excusable or should be accepted from family members, for any reason. It is always easy to say sorry after the fact, that doesn't make it right.

My children have a worse record than me when it comes to relationships. None of them have been physically violent towards their partners. However they can be verbally abusive and show some of the traits of their father when faced with dispute in the relationships. They have also been verbally abusive and disrespectful towards me on occasion. Luckily there was never been violence involved. Twice I have had to take action by cutting contact for a period of time with them in an effort to bring them to their senses. Both times it was about six months. Once over the Christmas period, that was hard. It broke my heart to do it, but I told them both that I had put up with abuse from their father, and was not going to accept it from them. I cried for weeks but stood my ground.

Once thing I did bear in mind was not to let it go on too long. I argued with my brother and shortly after he died, without me ever having the chance to say sorry or that I loved him. With both my sons I sent a card saying I miss you. They responded and all was well, better than before. You can't let someone hurt you badly and say it's okay, because it's not. They will never learn anything and will think it's acceptable to act that way.

Gloria, you have been a good mother. Perhaps you feel guilt for what your kids went through. I know I do and blame myself. But it is not reason to allow your sons to treat you this way. After all you are caring for your son now that he is disabled and he should be grateful to you and not treat you this way. It is disgusting, no matter how you look at it. You really need to tell him that you won't tolerate that sort of behaviour again.

 

[mamachick]

Intothelight, thank you. I have suffered from this, I dont expect to ever forget, it is part of who I am, I survived, and it only contributes to a fraction of who I am. I knew when I saw him at the funeral that I had totally forgiven him. (20 yrs had passed by then.) He has a lot of issues, anxiety, nervousness, etc, and I could tell that he was not well. Time does not heal all wounds, but it can help if we can let it.

I want calm and peace in my life. I am in no way an avoider, but I cant hang on to grudges and expect peace in my life.

Loloma, YOu got away and are a survivor. Ii agree with Deb that there is no place for violence-we must feel safe in our own home. Yet I also understand and respect others do come to this how they see fit and on their own time. Women are the best gauge of how dangerous a situation is. Wow, as mothers it is like we do absorb guilt for everything when it comes to our kids. I am quilty of overcompensating as a result and giving the benefit of the doubt. It was easy when they were young, it was the teen years that were the biggest challenge. I had a lot of fear when my kids were teens-I suspect because that is the age I was when some bad things happened that I was unable to share with anyone.

Glad you sent the card to your sons. There is always some positive we can find even if we do not agree with the behavior.

 

[mamachick]

Gloria and all, I just wanted to say that we all have to make hard decisions. Its difficult to understand the complexity of anothers experience or to explain everything accurately to others. Its very easy to fall into the black and white, good and bad thinking. Even when some things seem quite clear, there are often extinuating factors that are impossible to know and understand in anothers perspective. There even difficult to identify in ourselves.

Situations are so simple, and yet so complicated. For myself, I am almost always happy to support, share opinion, and sometimes advice, yet in the end, it is only my opinion. There is absolutely know what I can know what is best for someone else. Thats why we almost all have therapists. Its even difficult to follow therapists advice and suggestions at times, and even when we trust them fully.

Gloria, in reading your delimma with your sons, I really feel like I dont have much advice, but I am here to listen and support you in how you decide to handle it. I know it is complicated and I can only imagine the heartache that you feel in dealing with this. I dont want to see you get injured physically, but if you do, I hope that you are always able to share openly and receive the support and respect that you deserve.

I have always felt safe here to share and have appreciated replies. I am grateful for this forum and for all the members that have so much to offer. I appreciate you all. I know this probably not the right place to post this, but it seems appropriate as I am specifically speaking of someone assaulted by son, (intention or accidently) and I know that it triggers something in many of us who have dealt with the same. I have been able to justify someones treatment toward me, until I decide that I will not tolerate it any longer. That time is different for all of us, and is dependent on circumstances and the relationship.

Peace to all

 

[Gloria]

Gloria,
I hope your therapy session goes well on Monday. I am thinking of you.

Went fabulous and we discussed why defending my opinion and writing about my trauma was the worst thing to happen to me and yet I completely rose above it to the point where I find it almost comical how people project their experience (and opinions) on to other people with the "intention" of trying to help them.
I am now once a once a month patient. I passed and I know I don't need her anymore after being so triggerd.
Thanks and hugs AngelaMarie!!
Gloria

 

[Gloria]

It is really hard to overcome programming though, if it is instilled with violence. If he beat you son, I'm sure he probably beat your younger son.

Find things other than your children to make you strong with your values. That is what I have learned. That way you don't have to rely on them to grow your strong centre. And then whether they dissapoint or succeed you can share their journey if you are strong enough to.

I have in support groups for 25 years. The implication that I am not working on myself makes me laugh. Thanks for your support and although it would be likely that my husband would beat the younger son, the younger son was not adopted and his biological son, and I am positive that he was not beaten.
Hope you that find peace. I have.
Hugs,
Gloria

 

[Gloria]

Gloria and all, I just wanted to say that we all have to make hard decisions.

I didn't call the police. Sorry, there is no hard fast rule that demands it no matter anyone says because since this thread, I (laughingly) heard from a lot of PTSD sufferers who "slipped" and would have gone through hell if someone called the police on them. I rescue horses and most of them were sent to the slaughter auction because of one incident - bucking off a rider or reacting to past abuse so they were sent to be slaughtered. Fortunately, I have God's love in my heart and the patience to work with them and 36 horses were placed with great homes as very safe (after many months of my work) or sent to be EQUINE therapy horses that were so gentle that they were safe enough for cancer patients. But if you still to the rule. A horse that kicks or bucks can never be trusted, then would be dead. And for all I know a lot of poeple on the forum could have suffered greatly if you they weren't cut a little slack.

My son went into therapy because I made it mandatory when I took him to the ER.. Happy ending instead of being a hard ass and sticking to the rules. My son spent the day together as I said. We already staightening out about his wedding and I will never see my rapist husband. I was not legal to file rape charges against a man you were married to at the time so there was nothing I coiuld do.

I'm glad that there are poeple like you and me who have God's love and forgiveness and His gentle spirit in our hearts so that we can see the difference between someone who has temporarily lost it and someone who is a monster.
Hugs,
Gloria

 

[Gloria]

To All Who Read My Posts:

My posts are my own opinion based upon my own experience. No where did I mention anyone in particular nor did I mention anyone's personal situation.

You made statements that "you need to get yourself together". More appropriate would have been "A person needs to get themselves together". Maybe just grammatical but I feel I have myself together and working at it for a very long time.

My reference to approaching someone personally comes from the bible. I always ask before giving advince and contact he person by messaging to make sure I have the story staight. I don't want to be a hero. I want to contact someone and help them. There is a bibly passage that refers to this and it's one of my favorites. Also I try to understand everything first before making a statement and rarely to I tell someone what to do. I have not walked in their shoes and I don't know where they are in their journey.

Discussing it with my therapist and my BF, they both told me that had I been approached in a safe environment without being told what to do and being told that you have four kids .....etc. so apparently your knowledge completely surpasses mine so you have the right to give opinions. I never had four children although I have been married many times because except for a marriage of 12 years, my marriages lasted between under 2 weeks to about three months. Why? I sent my children to Christian schools and my belief that sex and living together was reserved for marriage. I now see that this was very problematic as it only took me a couple weeks to discover abusive behavior towards me and my children and divorced or annulled the marriage. I can honestly say the only marriage where my children were exposed to my abuse was from the man who raped me and I stayed in the marriage for economic reasons. At that time, I had no money or family and could not escape for two years. Never happened again although I did get married. I took birth control and unless I had been married at least two years to a good man, no children. First time the man even showed any sign of abuse, I was divorced but by then, I was the one that owned the house. My sons used to say after the jerk left, "You chewed him up and spit him out". I left myself very vulnerable by talking about kicking the dog. You could have called the police and they would do nothing. I kicked her with my drop foot never hurt her but felt terribly guilty. BTW, did I put Missy down for biting me over the 14 years when she had tooth problems. I have seen people put down dogs many times for one little bite. I think there's way too much over-reaction in this thread.

I understand. In my volunteer work, I steer clear of abused women. Why? Because I have found that in a month or a week, they are back with hubbie and I'm the trouble maker. Abused women protect their abusers. I am not protecting my sons and that is why I used this thread to vent my frustration (and resolve it before it got carried away). I am healthy and happy. My sons were cleaning their rooms, paying their board, fixing the barn and took my car in for oil change today. We had a tiff and every family has the tiffs. I know of women that stay with husbands who destroyed them financially, have slapped them on occasion, and refuse to work. They make that choice and are happy with it.

My husband of 12 years was an alcoholic. He was the sweetest and most gentle man in the world except every now and then he got too drunk and got a little violent. Well, I took martial arts and one time he came after me, I beat him up! He never did that again. I never called the police. The money it would have cost me! A few hours later, he didn't even remember it. He died of an alcoholism. Some people say that I should not have stayed married to him. I am so glad I did.

I feel so close to God thanks to this thread. I felt weak at times but I realize now that I had the strength and the rational and the love to be the person that I am. I feel sorry, truly sorry, for those of you who aren't speaking to your children and who severed ties and called the police. I feel sorry for the ones who feel a sense of pride for doing this. I feel sorry for you because you don't work with abused horses and don't how love and patience is much more powerful because it comes from God and not local ordinances and psychology books.

I will re-iterate. No one has the right to tell you how to run your life. No one has to make statement. This is wrong... period .... no exception. There are exceptions to every rule.

My house is calm and joyful and there is communication. Sometimes there are arguments but a house without arguments and disagreements is a house where people are afraid to speak their minds and feel things.

 

[Gloria]

*lays head on table and weeps*

I believe in God working in my life. My teeth needed work for 4 years and until this time, I wouldn't spend the money. My dogs and horses never went without dental care. My teeth were falling apart and thankfully because this happened, I am in the process of getting them straightened, and fixed. I got them pulled because it costs $5,000 per tooth for root canals and crowns. Because I broke them, the dentist (who refused before this to pull them) pulled my teeth and no more abscsess. So maybe this was God's plan.
Hugs,
Gloria

Good heavens, your son on the right looks like a younger Richard Thomas!

Good food, braces and self confidance. My youngest has appeared in four movies and MTV videos. They both are college grads and very accomplished young men. I am proud of them and the way I raised them.
I don't know who Richard Thomas is but I'm assuming he is handsome?:D My boys are handsome and respectful and do volunteer work and just because they aren't perfect, they sure are to me!
Hugs,
Gloria

Gloria -
Thank you for bringing your situation into the light. It hits home for me as I too have sons who relate to their father who is/was less than adequate. More on that later. :)

Please share how you feel and hopefully this thread is for sharing and not judging.
Hugs,
Gloria

Crazy talk, say I Crazy TALK!

I think the only crazy talk is how this thread has totally become a soap box.
Hugs,
Gloria

Indeed! well said

(you were quoting Intothelight justifying why she had to be harsh)

I really wish this thread can be used for those that I have heard from that want to come forward but are afraid of being judged. (In my humble opinion) I have worked as a social worker with abused women because I was abused. I know the cycle. Why do women turn away from other women that "are harsh" and their motive is to help. First that woman (or man or child) must develop trust and respect for the person who gives advice because that person is not going to listen to someone who he doesn't know, trust and respect. So ranting on this thread is not a good thing. I wish people who went through what I went through the last few months could feel open to talk about what's going on without fear or unsolictied advice, blanket statements and judgement.

Judge not so that thee shall not be judged. Let those among us who are without sin, cast the first stone.