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News Statism Or Racism, Which Is Worse?

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Well obviously genocide and lynchings are perfectly acceptable as long as "big gubbmint" isn't responsible, and letting starving families have enough money to eat is a heinous atrocity against mankind because it's "filthy communist policy" and violates the "free market".
 
...@ Np:
Great efforts are made to get us to scapegoat the more oppressed ( migrant workers, disabled welfare recipients, poor people in general ) for our woeful economic condition, rather than the people who actually have caused it ( corporate overlords and their bought lackeys in the government ).

@ all...
Removal of welfare in the USA seems to be particularly cruel given that full employment is deliberately prevented, to keep labor disempowered.

...regarding the insurance industry? Since Medicare is able to do what it does with a 1% administrative overhead?

One is left to conclude that the 20% administrative costs that the commercial health insurers are permitted to retain...are what you pay them to tell you WHAT TREATMENTS YOU CANNOT HAVE.

This rather neatly displays how parasitic the insurance industry actually is.

...edited to add...I don't know if this is on topic.
 
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Well obviously genocide and lynchings are perfectly acceptable as long as "big gubbmint" isn't responsible.

They are crimes whomever commits them

However, private individuals, committing those acts on their own, are not likely to be able to claim national security, national interest, greater good, or necessity as an excuse.

Or if they do, they're not likely to be believed.

By contrast, even in America in the 20th century a whole ethnic group, those with Japanese ancestry, could be legally expropriated and caged, and the thugs responsible, considered national heroes rather than criminal abusers.
 
However, private individuals, committing those acts on their own, are not likely to be able to claim national security, national interest, greater good, or necessity as an excuse.

Where are we talking?

I don't think that generalization is workable, really.

Edited to add: There's far worse states than the US, being my point. On all those angles repeatedly brought up as US' fault.
 
Edited to add: There's far worse states than the US, being my point. On all those angles repeatedly brought up as US' fault.

I completely agree, there are regimes which are much worse to the people who live within the lines drawn on a map,

Just the two worst examples in absolute number terms; China during the Mao years with about 76 million murders along with deaths due to man made famines, and 48 million variously murdered frozen and starved by Stalin's regime in the former soviet union.

The reason I'm using the American examples is because that's a regime that most here would regard as being benign or even good.

It's quite easy to suggest that attrocities could be due to the weakness of a people

I'll use the national socialist era in germany as an example of events that are often (incorrectly in my opinion) blamed on the weakness of a people - even by some Germans.

or the absence of a suitable constitution, democracy and a system of checks and balances

neither of those excuses can be made by Americans in the case of the state that's boundaries surround them.

Im not arguing that racism is good. only that without a state for racists to hide behind, they become far less dangerous. Instead of police or soldiers with the illusion of power privileges and authority. everyone can see that they're just thugs

and in the case of say a shopkeeper who refuses to serve me on grounds of my race, he's merely inconveniencing and annoying me, and loosing my trade. simillarly a business owner who refuses to employ me on grounds of my race.

he neither pick my pocket, nor breaks my legs,

whereas, if i get on the radar of a state, picked pocket and broken legs are the least of my worries.
 
My semi-random thoughts.

These are all forms of scapegoatism. They generally form in environments where there is pain and stress - a problem of some time. Like in dysfunctional abusive families, some group is labeled the problem, the lesser-than, the outsider. The one/group who is the cause of all our problems. It is a distraction from whatever real problem the society in which these things occur is facing.
Arguably, without access to the coercive powers claimed by statists (I'm using Max Weber's definition of state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence ) , a racist is just an individual with some (IMO) rather bizzare likes and dislikes.
I wouldn't call the KKK a group of people will bizzare likes and dislikes.

I also think it is hard to fully separate the two in many cases. South Africa's apartheid. Nazi's. ISIS. All statist and all racist. There are many other examples....

Arguably, without access to the coercive powers claimed by statists (I'm using Max Weber's definition of state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence ) , a racist is just an individual with some (IMO) rather bizzare likes and dislikes. If he acts out violently, then only his motive for acting out is different from any other violent individual - he's just another violent individual - is getting attacked by him made worse because the colour of my skin was the motivation, rather than say the clothes I was wearing?
I have been a victim of both a "random" crime and a "hate" crime. I would not say one was worse than the other. I would say that the hate crime did affect me quite differently.

Example: if someone spray paints my front door with random foul language grafiti, it stinks. If someone spray paints it with racial slurs, it would impact me differently. It's not better or worse, but it has a different effect.

I have been a victim of a government agency that abused it's power. I have been the victim of individual acting on their own.

My therapist told me that the number one factor in the development of PTSD from criterion A trauma is not always the severity of the trauma, but the amount of invalidation in the peri-traumatic environment. If we take this and apply it to this example, it would suggest that people who are victims of statism, where a whole powerful "group" - the state - victimizes someone, the amount of invalidation in the society of the horror of the trauma is likely greater than if just one or two people acted. So in this way, I would say that statism, could be more traumatic.
Affected by racism = only some people
Affected by statism = ALL people
I would counter that all people are affected by racism. Someone is "in," and others are "out," and this affects all of society no matter what the basis is used to choose this.
 
whereas, if i get on the radar of a state, picked pocket and broken legs are the least of my worries.

Think of that doubled, or tripled, or -- you know?
And it ultimately still is about keeping your legs and belongings safe, and individual care and where to get reliable other people, regardless of what forms of -ism is one facing. Complex shit, smoother navigation with simplifying it to something up to you, instead others, no matter what the others are up to.
 
Personally, that we should stop focusing on 'race' equated with skin color / skin tone.

A lot of identities are racialized depending where one is and it's not so simplistic. Precisely for reasons you illustrate, Pencil. Experiences being 'White' in South Africa isn't going going to be nowhere near 'White' in say Europe, & wouldn't read the same to other continent either.
 
Following on from what gets defined as "race", and where

We're still haunted by two malignant pseudo philosophies from the past.

Firstly, to the Marxists, thought, logic, science etc are determined by social class (via relations to the "material productive forces" though the definitions of the terms and the mechanisms by which they might be related are never clearly described).

It's only small step from the orthodox Marxians believing in thought logic, science etc being different and defined by social class - to having them defined by what state people are living under, this is to an extent the position of "historicist" "institutionalist" and "Hermaneutic" economists, and to the nationalist direction in which Benito Mussolini et al (Woodrow Wilson and Delano Roosevelt are also a loose fit in that camp), took their socialism (Mussolini had been a fairly orthodox internationalist Marxist, and remained in life long, friendly correspondence with Lenin and Trotsky) after the outbreak of WWI in 1918. It is notable that Mussolini was not averse to Jews, so long as they were living in Italy.

Again, it is only another short step (one that Mussolini disagreed with until political expediency after he was shunned by the rest of the European statists for the catastrophic invasion of Abyssinia, tempted him into bed with Hitler, a man whom he had previously disparaged. - that's not saying that mussolini was a nice guy - he certainly wasn't, and his politics (very similar to ours is today) was IMO hideous)
one short step to thought, logic and science etc, being different and defined by "race".

In European and American terms, the most prominent examples of this thinking have been Hitler's [racial] national socialism and in somewhat confused racial-religious terms, Zionism.

The similarities in intended means and the contrast between the way to differentiate the chosen favoured group from the target group which is to be annihilated (if you believe that the target group thinks with a different logic, uses a different science etc, then they can never possibly agree with you, they can only be kept entirely separate from you or annihilated) is brilliantly shown in Edvins Snori's film "Soviet Story" (it's up on youtube).

Snori, shows film of British (Irish) Play write and socialist eugenisist George Bernard Shaw, in the 1920s, praying to science to invent a poisonous gas which could be used to humanely kill the group of people whom he disliked.

A few years later, chemists working at I G Faben, came up with just such a gas. It is interesting that Shaw agreed in principle to a gas being used by a state to mass murder a group of people.
he only disagreed with the criteria upon which the group of people to be murdered were defined.
 
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My personal favourite analysis of social class based and racial polylogisms, the reasons for them

(they were attempts to undermine the logical deductive basis of economics - as the conclusions of those logical deductions had not been refuted, and they pointed out the economic impossibility of various political schemes)

are given by economist (and incidentally a secular Jew) Ludwig von Mises. These are given most succinctly in the introduction to "Human Action". https://mises.org/library/human-action-0 . More rigorous elaborations are given in his three epistemological works.

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The radicalism of this wholesale condemnation of economics was very soon surpassed by a still more universal nihilism. From time immemorial men in thinking, speaking, and acting had taken the uniformity and immutability of the logical structure of the human mind as an unquestionable fact. All scientific inquiry was based on this assumption. In the discussions about the epistemological character of economics, writers, for the first time in human history, denied this [p. 5] proposition too. Marxism asserts that a man's thinking is determined by his class affiliation. Every social class has a logic of its own. The product of thought cannot be anything else than an "ideological disguise" of the selfish class interests of the thinker. It is the task of a "sociology of knowledge" to unmask philosophies and scientific theories and to expose their "ideological" emptiness. Economics is a "bourgeois" makeshift, the economists are "sycophants" of capital. Only the classless society of the socialist utopia will substitute truth for "ideological" lies.

This polylogism was later taught in various other forms also. Historicism asserts that the logical structure of human thought and action is liable to change in the course of historical evolution. Racial polylogism assign to each race a logic of its own. Finally there is irrationalism, contending that reason as such is not fit to elucidate the irrational forces that determine human behavior.

Such doctrines go far beyond the limits of economics. They question not only economics and praxeology but all other human knowledge and human reasoning in general. They refer to mathematics and physics as well as to economics. It seems therefore that the task of refuting them does not fall to any single branch of knowledge but to epistemology and philosophy. This furnishes apparent justification for the attitude of those economists who quietly continue their studies without bothering about epistemological problems and the objections raised by polylogism and irrationalism. The physicist does not mind if someone stigmatizes his theories as bourgeois, Western or Jewish; in the same way the economist should ignore detraction and slander. He should let the dogs bark and pay no heed to their yelping. It is seemly for him to remember Spinoza's dictum: Sane sicut lux se ipsam et tenebras manifestat, sic veritas norma sui et falsi est.

However, the situation is not quite the same with regard to economics as it is with mathematics and the natural sciences. Polylogism and irrationalism attack praxeology and economics. Although they formulate their statements in a general way to refer to all branches of knowledge, it is the sciences of human action that they really have in view. They say that it is an illusion to believe that scientific research can achieve results valid for people of all eras, races, and social classes, and they take pleasure in disparaging certain physical and biological theories as bourgeois or Western, But if the solution of practical problems requires the application of these stigmatized doctrines, they forget their criticism. The technology of Soviet Russia utilizes without scruple all the results of bourgeois physics, chemistry, [p. 6] and biology just as if they were valid for all classes. The Nazi engineers and physicians did not disdain to utilize the theories, discoveries, and inventions of people of "inferior" races and nations. The behavior of people of all races, nations, religions, linguistic groups, and social classes clearly proves that they do not endorse the doctrines of polylogism and irrationalism as far as logic, mathematics, and the natural sciences are concerned.

But it is quite different with praxeology and economics. The main motive for the development of the doctrines of polylogism, historicism, and irrationalism was to provide a justification for disregarding the teachings of economics in the determination of economic policies. The socialists, racists, nationalists, and etatists failed in their endeavors to refute the theories of the economists and to demonstrate the correctness of their own spurious doctrines. It was precisely this frustration that prompted them to negate the logical and epistemological principles upon which all human reasoning both in mundane activities and in scientific research is founded.

It is not permissible to dispose of these objections merely on the ground of the political motives which inspired them. No scientist is entitled to assume beforehand that a disapprobation of his theories must be unfounded because his critics are imbued by passion and party bias. He is bound to reply to every censure without any regard to its underlying motives or its background. It is no less impermissible to keep silent in the face of the often asserted opinion that the theorems of economics are valid only under hypothetical assumptions never realized in life and that they are therefore useless for the mental grasp of reality. It is strange that some schools seem to approve of this opinion and nonetheless quietly proceed to draw their curves and to formulate their equations. They do not bother about the meaning of their reasoning and about its reference to the world of real life and action.

This is, of course, an untenable attitude. The first task of every scientific inquiry is the exhaustive description and definition of all conditions and assumptions under which its various statements claim validity. It is a mistake to set up physics as a model and pattern for economic research. But those committed to this fallacy should have learned one thing at least: that no physicist ever believed that the clarification of some of the assumptions and conditions of physical theorems is outside the scope of physical research. The main question that economics is bound to answer is what the relation of its statements is to the reality of human action whose mental grasp is the objective of economic studies. [p. 7]

It therefore devolves upon economics to deal thoroughly with the assertion that its teachings are valid only for the capitalistic system of the shortlived and already vanished liberal period of Western civilization. It is incumbent upon no branch of learning other than economics to examine all the objections raised from various points of view against the usefulness of the statements of economic theory for the elucidation of the problems of human action. The system of economic thought must be built up in such a way that it is proof against any criticism on the part of irrationalism, historicism, panphysicalism, behaviorism, and all varieties of polylogism. It is an intolerable state of affairs that while new arguments are daily advanced to demonstrate the absurdity and futility of the endeavors of economics, the economists pretend to ignore all this.

It is no longer enough to deal with the economic problems within the traditional framework. It is necessary to build the theory of catallactics upon the solid foundation of a general theory of human action, praxeology. This procedure will not only secure it against many fallacious criticisms but clarify many problems hitherto not even adequately seen, still less satisfactorily solved. There is, especially, the fundamental problem of economic calculation.
 
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