General Talks Of Suicide

[Thankful]

Hi All...

Haven't been on here for awhile and it' good to be back.

I am not as closely acquainted with my sufferer (former bf, and Iraq Army Vet) as I used to be, but I do still talk to him via phone and text a about 4 or 5 times a month (He lives in another state). It goes in waves, how much we do or do not talk. I 'let go' awhile back, and have allowed myself to not feel as much responsibility as I used to (having grown very close to him over time due to supporting him through his tour in Iraq and afterward).

But today he did speak up and is stressed (usually, he just withdraws and I know I will hear from him at a later date). He speaks of life being better if he were dead and that he is living in a hell right now. He says the only reason he doesn't kill himself is because he fears he would go to hell.

My question:
when is it ok, or best, to intervene, to tell them they need more help than they are getting and to suggest this and some ideas? Currently, he sees a VA counselor once a week and it just seems he only gets 'milktoast' care from the VA, along with a lot of pills. The VA is trying to send him to a VA ctr in California where they deal especially with PTSD but they sure aren't pushing him (despite his many ER visits with panic attacks, multiple car accidents etc since his redeployment and other crazy/sad experiences). I hate that they just stand back and 'ask him' what he would like to do and then not push him to get more help etc.

I think my soldier needs a little push. I've not ever done it but I'm tired of watching this. It's ridiculous. Is it possible that it's the right thing to do, or not? I know with Sufferers it's a fine line on what you say or don't say, so I've usually opted to butt out and only speak if he asks questions, or calls to say hi and make small talk.

I know better. I've had therapy in my past and know there is MUCH better care than what he is getting. They don't push him to get in a support group or anything.

Thoughts?

thank you!

 

[Thankful]

Would love to get some feedback if anyone has some to share! Thanks. :)

 

[Sad Nicola]

Hi

If you push him he will maybe get defensive/paranoid. On the other hand from what you say things do seem desperate. I think the best you can do is to get him to want to do something about his current condition; then, with his permission you might be able to approach someone on his behalf.

The hard thing is that the desire for help has to come from, and be clearly expressed, by him. Do any more than this and you'll likely make things worse.

This is from someone who has been there (and sometimes still is) - believe me - help can be misinterpreted as interference and control and that is the worst thing you can do.

That's my experience anyway.

Nicola

 

[Thankful]

Thanks, Nicola. Your words are my thoughts...I've usually not said or done much of anything in the regard of intervening in his life. But this time I just really wonder....how long does one wait for the Sufferer to have enough personal gumption to ask for help, especially if on enough meds and depressed just enough that asking seems like a lot of energy that they don't have; or how long does one wait for the VA to step in and make a difference....and before the Sufferer has been effected by too many pills and zero intensive therapy?

It's a tough line to know for sure. My fear is that he becomes yet another story of someone who took their life and while everyone around--especially the VA--stood back and watched his demise without stepping in.

We do interventions for alcoholics, why not interventions for those who are too drugged up, too depressed and while talking suicide? A question I ponder quite often.

 

[seedling]

It would be good to try to address the suicidal stuff if you can. Sounds pretty serious. Maybe let him know it would make a difference to you if he were gone. Try to give him something to hang on for. Has he told his counselor, been able to share this with anyone else? Maybe ask him if he thinks he could get better care. You may know how to say some of these things without pushing him too far. Offer to be there for him to call if he really feels in trouble?

All the best to the both of you.

 

[Deleted member 6617]

Hi Thankful,

What a tough spot for both of you. Sorry for that. I can only speak from my own experience as a sufferer, so take it for what it is worth. I get completely over whelmed if too many "suggestions" are given to me. Too many options that I can't even begin to sort through let alone act on when I am in that state. Practicle hands on help is always so much better for me. Example would be like what Nicola said about acting on his behalf with his permission. There is nothing worse for me than good intentions without the practicle actions that go with it. Yes, please call and set that appointment for me kind of thing.

Kinda hard when you are so far apart. Letting him know how important he is to you would be helpful too. Reminding him what he has to live for.

Wish there were easy answers. We all are so different. I wish you the best and hope you get useful answers that can help him.

 

[ISupportHer]

Just my own 2 cents.

I have gotten to the point where I don't push. I am confident that I get my message out in subtle ways that I am here. I can listen. But I have found that sometimes even small suggestions get perceived as my being controlling.

So the obvious question after saying that (to me anyway) is how do you fight the feeling of hopelessness. That I can't change things, among many other emotions. So I try to change my perspective. I've referred to it here as the OTHER cup analogy. My cup is not half empty but it IS half full. I know in my heart that I AM doing something and that a minimalist response to the urge to "push" is really a huge thing.

OK, I do sometimes falter, meaning that sometimes I get very frustrated and have a hard time myself.

The suicide stuff is another story. Safety trumps all else, in my book. A threat of life requires immediate action. May cause big problems with trust later but at least they are alive to try to deal with the repercussions. That's MY opinion anyway.

ISH

 

[Marine]

As a combat vet myself, I think getting treatment is very important. Someone really has to find a way to push and motivate people to go get help.

All my counselors and friends pushed me and somehow got me to go and attend therapy after certain incidents. I was very agitated and angry because I refused to go. I went then used to give up almost always. I still didn't like it for the first few times and nearly gave up, then was introduced to counselors that put me in the right direction. They motivated me and persuaded me to give it a shot but then again, I'd still give up.

There are a few things that can get someone mandatory help. That is if they say they are suicidal, will harm others, or anyone. If they mention suicide or a hint of it, the VA then puts you in the ward, where they see the severity and then direct you to somewhere else without allowing you to leave for a week or maybe 2 or 3, if you improve they then get you connected with therapists and counselors and on continued out patient therapy. That's actually how they got me. They probably got me like 2-3 time this way. I remember being mad at the doctors that tricked me into admitting it and putting me up in the treatment facility. They used trick questions to get it out of me even if I didn't initially state it. But I guess if they didn't I'd be in worse shape.

The VA has a lot of programs out there. Try contacting the WRIISC. They might give better info and they usually put people in the right direction on what to do. Or there are counselors for war veterans inside the veterans hospital that deal with this.