Research The impact of adverse/positive childhood experiences

[Ice_Fire]

I have participated but I really wish they’d change the “did you ever see your mum be abused” kind of question to a gender neutral. My mum never got beaten up because she was the one doing the beating. That question p*sses me off so much.

 

[scout86]

I usually participate in the studies that show up here because, well, you know, "science". After reading the comments, I'm giving this one a pass. Mostly because of observations like those Ice_Fire made. I'm also surprised to hear that the ACE standards aren't gender neutral. That's a pretty huge mistake.

 

[Freida]

So I just looked at the ACE and all the questions are "parent or adult" or "anyone"

Maybe it's been updated?
I didn't look at the survey here - just googled it to see because I've seen it several times at retreats and it's always gender neutral

 

[jaccat]

@Freida the problem question is not about how the parent treated you, it's a later question that asks if your mother/stepmother was ever abused (pushed/slapped/hit, etc.) It's been in every ACE test I've ever come across.

 

[Friday]

@Freida the problem question is not about how the parent treated you, it's a later question that asks if your mother/stepmother was ever abused (pushed/slapped/hit, etc.) It's been in every ACE test I've ever come across.

I’ve read some cool studies that look specifically AT that question. Along the lines of discluding it.

Curiously?

Whether it’s a male/female or female/female? The effects are incredibly polarizing. Witnessing a father’s abuse, otoh, has incredibly diverse responses (again, either female/male, or male/male). The only reality where a mother’s abuse is NOT polarizing is in a diverse group situation… like a refugee camp… but the effects (extreme protective drive) then diverge in almost countless ways. Whilst in a family abuse situation, the effects on children are extremely predictable & expansive. (This is right, this is wrong… for the entire sex/gender… regardless of the sex/gender of the children witnessing it). Instead, when it’s a group vs 1, it becomes the individual themselves -and the relationship- who is important, rather than backing all the way up to “understanding” sex/gender roles as “naturally” incorporating abuse (this is right) or rejecting the premise altogether (this is wrong).

^^^ Yikes. To clear as mud that business up?

When it’s your mom within a family, even clannishly LARGE families? The effects are polarizing.
- This is the right was to treat -or expect to be treated- for women.
- This wrong. Full stop. (Both for my mom, and all women, including myself if I’m female).

When it’s your mom (or female guardian) in a diverse group?
- This. Is. Wrong. + Extreme protective …everything… about anything that emulates the relationship. Any person that is “yours” is your responsibility to protect. How? Almost infinite ways. That’s where the divergence happens. <<< It’s about the perceived relationship between yourself & others, rather than the sex/gender.

vvv Back on target!

So it’s such an informative question (at least in patriarchal societies, I haven’t read any studies done on matriarchal societies), I expect it will remain. Unless it gets PC’d out. Which would be a shame, IMO. As polarizing experiences in psych are wicked rare, and often profound. (Like rape victims nearly always polarize into hypersexual or sexually avoidant). Most experiences cause incredibly diverse responses (again, to use rape victims as an example? There are a couple of dozen common disorders/conditions/problems that result from rape). When the “norm” is for a spectrum response? A polarizing -or singular- response, is an incredibly useful weapon in the arsenal.

 

[BuildingSelf24]

One room for improvement would be to have a separate question about sexual assaults. My memory could be failing me but I recall that there was one question about sexual abuse with someone older. My experience happened with someone the same age but still had adverse effects on me emotionally and psychologically.

 

[Sideways]

The ACE questions are biased towards a particular demographic. They weren’t ever actually intended to cover all adverse experiences that any child anywhere might experience (if you’re curious about where the questions were devised and why, this is article summarises the history pretty well).

Since the initial study in the 90s, the ACE went on to be used to study the correlation between rough childhoods and a range of long term health outcomes experienced by adults. Which have in turn been influencing public policy (mostly in the US).

One of the problems with changing the inadequate questions at this point is you’d be measuring something different. The research that has been done with the ACE wouldn’t apply to the new research, because you’re measuring 2 different things.

Which is not a defence for continuing to use the old bunk scale. But it is one of the reasons the original questions persist, despite their inadequacy.

 

[BuildingSelf24]

The ACE questions are biased towards a particular demographic. They weren’t ever actually intended to cover all adverse experiences that any child anywhere might experience (if you’re curious about where the questions were devised and why, this is article summarises the history pretty well).

Since the initial study in the 90s, the ACE went on to be used to study the correlation between rough childhoods and a range of long term health outcomes experienced by adults. Which have in turn been influencing public policy (mostly in the US).

One of the problems with changing the inadequate questions at this point is you’d be measuring something different. The research that has been done with the ACE wouldn’t apply to the new research, because you’re measuring 2 different things.

Which is not a defence for continuing to use the old bunk scale. But it is one of the reasons the original questions persist, despite their inadequacy.

Thanks for this! Reading the history, it seems to only be targeting the common events so it makes sense why not every potential childhood trauma would be incorporated.

 

[scout86]

So it’s such an informative question (at least in patriarchal societies

I can see where that's probably true. But, because it's the ONLY version of that question, it probably also leaves the feeling that living in a house where your mother is the abuser doesn't really count as an adverse experience. I'd be willing to bet the questions were worded like they were because people were operating from the assumption that females are victims, not perpetrators, rather than from some well thought out plan.

 

[Sideways]

I'd be willing to bet the questions were worded like they were because people were operating from the assumption that females are victims, not perpetrators, rather than from some well thought out plan.

Probably the assumption was that female are more commonly victims, and males were more commonly perpetrators. The temptation to assume “they didn’t think my kind of abuse ever happens” is tempting when we feel invalidated. But I doubt it was that black and white.

The error in the assumption is more likely to be about how common the type of abuse is, rather than whether it happens at all.

 

[MxEnby]

I would suggest potentially adding a question relating to childhood experience of parental separation or divorce to potentially include other causes for having a single parent. (my parents technically separated as my dad died suddenly, however given that divorce was mentioned in the same question I answered no).
This might just be me (and my neurodiversity) but for the questions about closeness I was slightly unsure as to whether it referred to physical proximity or interpersonal relationships/friendships.