The Sudden End

[scout86]

I guess I would challenge you to think about why you feel like it is black and white meaning why do you feel like your relationship has to be over because you had an arguement? Is that how it worked in your family?

Thanks for flipping on a light switch! I don't know if it applies to Leah's situation, but you've pointed out a real "thing" I haven't thought about.

@Leah123 , I'm not sure what to say. I remember some of the discussions about your therapy and this relationship. I tend not to pass judgement on how T's do their jobs, because we don't really get enough information here, most of the time, to know the whole story. So, I have no opinion on the whole "enmeshment" thing.

What do you WANT to do and what do you want to have happen now?

And she just wrote me back and when I told her I couldn't see how to resolve the difference of opinion... she wrote that I'd have to sort that out,

That bit...... I can see, maybe, that, since you were the one to fire her, she sounds like she's standing by what ever it was she said? And, to go forward, you'd have to find a way to accept that?

then wrote that I had made what I didn't want to happen happen (losing our relationship), and that there was nothing more to say than goodbye.

That bit, though..... The "nothing more to say" part...... Seems like of black and white on her part.

Is this something where 2 people can't just hold differing opinions and work together anyway?

Sorry things have taken this turn! I hope, out of all the uproar, you find ways to learn and grow from it! :hug:

 

[Leah123]

"why do you feel like your relationship has to be over because you had an arguement?"

It wasn't over an argument.... yes, we do disagree strongly about some things, but it's never stopped our therapy before really, it was over her inability to... let me be, let me speak, let me... have my beliefs without criticizing them, shutting me down, and telling me my beliefs were harmful based on two studies she'd misinterpreted, when at the time.... I think it would have behooved us for her just to listen and hold what I was saying, not push the conversation into such challenging territory given where we were at in that moment and in our relationship right now. It was a lack of empathy.

Aside from that... the rest of the session was her being unable to reach me, work with me in a helpful way, and again, too much advice too early on, something I've brought up with her more and more- the advice heavy conversations... like she's impatient and wants to solve things for me. Sometimes the advice has been helpful, like encouragement to prioritize myself... but sometimes it gets so that I don't have room to get out where I am... I'm just told what to do, how to be. :(

And we had an episode where afterward she admitted to transference really getting in her way about two weeks ago.

And we've just cut back frequency... so I wanted extra stability... and.... yeah. It hurts.

 

[Leah123]

What do you want to have happen now...

Hell... I want my mother.
I haven't had one in a long time.... and then... for a while here... I kind of did.
I had a woman, older, experienced, caring... who would be there for me consistently... help me work on my parenting, nurture me, inspire me (i.e. I applied to college again and finished my degree), and.... just... be there with lots of caring....in a good-enough-mother way. She was... clear about what she was and wasn't... that she couldn't replace my mother or anyone, but...it was good to have.... that go-to in my life...someone to share so much with and depend on.

What do I want now...
I wanted to wake up and have this be a nightmare and call and tell her about it, ha.

What do I want now...
I want... my safe space back, but... it wasn't always very productive there, and it was hard to be understood sometimes.. I wished for more insight... but... we were managing and I was feeling really poorly lately, but doing really really well actually, I am doing good things in my life, concrete improvements.... and... I just... wanted to feel like... she really.... would try and see what it felt like to be me...and she couldn't...she got defensive and came out asking these provocative loaded questions... and... it was right as I was struggling so hard to share something meaningful and private to me... and...

I don't know what I want, because I want... a way for us to both back up and for her to be sorry that she would try to undermine my faith. I see how she felt challenged by what I said, but... it's hard to accept she was at the ready to argue with me rather than just.... hear me in that context.

It got me that she had this "evidence" waiting in the wings that my beliefs, which she said in a trite way she accepted/respected, were detrimental, not just because she was wrong, but the timing and the way she said she'd seen the research but thought "why bother" because "what good would it do" to share it with me- until she felt uncomfortable and then she threw it in there...

I literally felt like I was coming out again and being told, oh you know, there's research that being gay is bad for your mental health.... and I knew there was but that it would be a waste of time to tell you so...

huh, what? Why are you shutting me down almost two hours into a rough session where I'm desperately grabbing for some positive thing to end with, to feel it hasn't all been a disconnecting waste. :(

It started when she asked me if our beliefs differing bothered me... and I answered her in more detail than she was ready for. :( I wish she had not asked me... it didn't help. :(

 

[Leah123]

"you will find that you can't be in relationships with anyone because we all have fundamental differences"

But see, that's not true- I've always had relationships with people who have fundamental differences, because I have a couple key non-mainstream beliefs. But I've had friends and good relationships with coworkers and family despite that. It's just... I wanted to be able to share the truth of my heart, my passion about this with her, and didn't do it lightly.... we've been together a long time. I don't go around proselytizing, I just opened up to her and the intensity was too much for her. :( She couldn't hold it and care for me... she.... got overwhelmed I guess and argued, felt shocked she said and felt the need to push back. She says I can't expect everything to go my way in therapy. Well, I figure the last 3.5 years has shown me that- I've returned to the work and worked out issues many times before, I've taken criticism and feedback and advice and dealt with it....

but... I couldn't see past her holding this against me. :(

 

[Leah123]

I just want her to say... "we were hasty, let's back up, I'm sorry I wasn't compassionate about something so important to you." I just want her to remember all the fears I shared about not having this relationship... and... for her to reach out and tell me.... she cares to make it work enough to relax and listen and that she can help us work it out. I don't know if that would even work... I just.... it's just hard.

I found the research she mentioned, I found it and clarified with lots of supporting documentation that it was a red herring, that it didn't actually show what she'd thought... how cause and correlation aren't the same and how it didn't really matter to our conversation, but... she was so stalwart, she was so.... rigid. :( And.... she missed the point... we were talking about spirituality, about mine, and.... no, I didn't want to be told in the midst of a very very hard period where I've been struggling with wanting to be dead, that two things I found helpful- exercise and spirituality (along with some other great changes I've made lately) basically weren't good enough, which is what she did in that session. :(

 

[Leah123]

I guess it just boils down to losing respect for her. She took an opportunity to witness a very deep part of me coming to light, and instead of holding herself open... she took a stand, an unhelpful (and factually incorrect) stand... and... it showed me... she couldn't keep the frame. The frame is cracked and collapsed. I gave her my passionate heartfelt conviction... and she gave me a heated and counterproductive debate. She wrote this morning that I could come back anytime, but she doesn't realize... there's no going home when home has been razed. That's what happened... she took our created shared space and... defiled it. I guess she might say I did the same, but.. I was just responding to her question and... don't know why I can't be heard even if the words are discomfiting when I'm in therapy with someone close like that.

 

[Leah123]

She had said before... our termination would be done right.... I wish she'd offer me a session to say she wanted to end this right.... maybe it feels too final to her, but... I just wanted her to... manage it, to.... not just say there's nothing more to say and come back if I want. :cry:

ETA: Instead, she just sent me an essay expounding on her beliefs and why they were right. Smh. She's missed the point and could fall through the gaping holes in her reasoning. So frustrating. There are a lot of things I'm terrible at, and a lot of things I'm ignorant about. But... not this, and... it's just... insult to injury for her to pass off entitlement and habit and conditioning as justification for anything. Status quo isn't a great justification for status quo. But... people historically see that in stages, sigh. :(

 

[Suzetig]

Why is she still in contact with you, given she said there's nothing else to say? I'm not sure I'm getting what the disagreement was about to be honest, or why it's so intense that it's ending a long standing relationship but I do hear how much pain it's causing you and I'm sorry it's happened.

 

[scout86]

Seems like anything you find useful, especially when the going gets tough, is, by definition, useful, so I don't quite get why she felt the need to insist that you were "wrong". (Am I understanding that right?) I know there are times my T thinks I'm not seeing things accurately. He's never said I'm wrong. He sets it up so I figure things out for myself. He wants to see me improve, I'm quite sure. But, if I choose to run off the rails or over a cliff, that's my choice and I wouldn't expect him to be invested in such a way as to take it that personally. Maybe she IS seeing herself too much in that role of substitute mother. I truly don't know.

You said she'd talked about how you'd end things right if you ended them. How do you see that? Is it something you can imagine doing? I guess it bothers me to see a long standing, hard to replace relationship of any kind end so strangely. But sometimes I guess it happens.

 

[Leah123]

She felt judged and it upset her. She said as much in the letter. But... she's missing the point, she's not seeing this as a therapist, and THIS is why I don't randomly spout off my beliefs to just anyone. What I believe is uplifting to me, harmless to NONE and still, in contradiction with her practice. I was explicit in my beliefs and why I have them... and... I just... can't respect her approach to my expression. I DO respect when people make their own choices eyes-wide-open, with thought and care, but I was talking about my beliefs because I needed some strength, some thing as a guard against apathy and despair and anxiety and dissociation... I was having a very hard session, so... I talked about some great quotes I'd found that were affirming, and then I answered *her* question about did our differing beliefs bother me... and... I came on too strong for her taste, sigh. I didn't attack her, but...my passion....it got to her.

I don't want the relationship to end, but I feel... her perspective is so.... she doesn't see how what went wrong was her taking a conversation that was to give me hope and turning it in to an attack on my family and beliefs. She calls it a "challenge" but.... it wasn't time for a challenge. :( I'd spent the last couple weeks mostly wanting death (and finding ways to fight it) and that session mostly disconnected, speechless, just crying a lot after a rocky start, and in a lot of pain for not being able to communicate better. :( Grueling and sad.

How do I see ending things right? Sigh... I hear her saying that she's lost perspective and never been so close to a client before and she's sorry she couldn't keep objective... that I guess would be.... the easiest thing?

 

[scout86]

Your beliefs somehow are a contradiction of her practice?

And she thought YOU were judging HER?

 

[scout86]

Darn phone! I wasn't quite done.

These people are people. They make mistakes. That doesn't necessarily make them bad, just human. It does sound like she lost perspective. Maybe she can reaquire it. Maybe one more session to check that out would be good.