Therapists?

[Swamprat 3]

I was in the Dana Farber Cancer Institute this morning, and ran into another vet (was wearing his hat broadcasting it), and started talking. He mentioned that he sees a VA 'therapist' for PTSD, and she (SHE?) is giving him some sort if homework assignment to do.

SHE? I will not even consider talking to some woman about anything to do with my tour in Nam. Or even a guy, if he hasn't been there, or at least in combat - real combat.

Do you guys use female or non-vet therapists? I view psychiatry as a 'pseudo-science' to begin with. All the book learning and theory in the world can not replace actual experience in theater.

I won't talk about anything to a female doc, or a male doc who has not been there. They can read all they want, hear all the stories from others, but have never experienced any of it. How could they possibly know - truly know - what it was like?

To be clear, I do not intend to even get put in this position. My world works for me, keeps me and mine safe. It is never easy, but I am on Point, and very, very, good at it.

Was just wondering how things are being handled today, as I KNOW that the VA guy will try to get me to talk to someone. Not a chance.

BTW - I waited almost a half hour to see my Oncodoc, so I just left. Let him wait a while.

 

[Jimmy1]

[quote="Swamprat 3, post: 39965, member: 2133"

Do you guys use female or non-vet therapists? I view psychiatry as a 'pseudo-science' to begin with. All the book learning and theory in the world can not replace actual experience in theater.

[/quote]

Swamprat, this was one issue I had when I first started seeing therapists/psych's. They put me on a course and not one of the facilitators had any active service whatsoever. It put a lot of us off at the time. Now I know a little more I don't mind at all.
We had one guest speaker who tried to talk the talk, he had done 10 years service and claimed to have been deployed, but he just did not sound right. He was a pretender. All the other facilitators stated openly that they were not in or had never been in the services. They were just there to do their job.

My first therapist was a female who was old enough to be my mother. She had ten years experience in talking to veterans with PTSD and had heard that many stories and nightmares I wondered how she did it. But she stuck out helping veterans even when her husband had a heart attack and was in hospital, helping veterans was a passion. When I asked her, she said that we sacrificed so much for our country, why shouldn't she sacrifice some of her life helping us.

In answer to your question mate. You have to trust your therapist, that's important, but they don't have to have been deployed. They are there purely to give you coping strategies and ways to deal with every day issues. They are also there as a confidential ear when you need to get something off your chest. I believe it takes a couple of appointments until you can gauge whether you feel comfortable enough.

Don't look at them like they are a fellow veteran that you can shoot the shit with, PTSD is PTSD and the coping strategies are the same whether that PTSD is from combat in Vietnam, Iraq, or from a natural disaster.

Give one a try mate, roll the dice. Therapists are like medication, you don't always get the right one straight away, you might have to try a couple first and then you will click with one. They are there to answer a question like, what to do when you suffer a panic attack in a shopping mall, or how to calm down when you are so angry you want to snap someone's neck. They don't need operational service to tell you that.

Just my opinion.

 

[Wagon]

Hey Swamprat,

Have not said welcome yet....but Welcome...or well, If you are in this mess, it's not exactly a happy place to be welcomed to.

I'm Navy. Younger. Served in the 80's. So maybe we are about as far apart as dim sum and rice crispies.

Speaking from experience...and only a few years at that, therapy is what you make of it. You want to talk, talk. You want to do it a different way, maybe take your time and dance around things. Do that. Male of female, those people are only there to help. Nothing else. No agenda, unless they have a time contstraint. Then that is annoying.

I have had a hard time rememebering everything. Got rid of a shrink because she tried to force me down roads I was not comfortable with. On to the next.

It's all up to you man. If you think you have some problems, well, only you can determine that. And then the step is to try and correct it. It's a real bitch asking for help. Believe me, I hate it. I delay for weeks asking for it. even though there is no good choice.

Not sure if that helps any, but for what its worth, we're all in the same damn shit boat here.

Peace
and
Hang Tough
Wagon

PS. I understand about not wanting to talk. I told things to my first therapist that she had a hard time with and I had not even gotten to the bad parts. Which of course made me not want to open up at all. She got fired. It all depends on the person.

 

[BaMuoiBa]

Hey SR3, you are absolutely correct. For 40 + years the shit rattled around in my head because I thought - they didn't walk in my shoes they never understand. It was suggested to me almost 25 years ago " maybe you should go see someone about that sleep problem and those dreams". My reply was "What the f*ck would they know" - and then I danced with the beast right up until 5 years ago.

How could they possibly know - truly know - what it was like?

My therapist is of the opposite sex and maybe 30 years younger than I. Like you, my bullshit screen went up immediately. My mind closed immediately but she laid down the ground rules. Very simply she said from the beginning " You are a warrior and I'm a mother - I won't pretend to know what combat is like as long as you don't pretend to know what giving birth is like" Hers was both physical and emotional pain that I'll never feel. Mine is pretty much the same. The only difference is she has two beautiful children as the result of her pain. Well, I don't have to tell you what I got. I have been married 48 years to my childhood sweetheart and never spoke a word to her about the shit in my head. Yet this total stranger was able to put me at ease enough for the shit to flow.

I would not have it any other way. She earned my trust.... don't judge the book by it's cover.

(BTW, her husband is a career Marine who has done multiple tours in the sandbox)

Ba

 

[Swamprat 3]

Hey SR3, you are absolutely correct. For 40 + years the shit rattled around in my head because I thought - they didn't walk in my shoes they never understand. It was suggested to me almost 25 years ago " maybe you should go see someone about that sleep problem and those dreams". My reply was "What the f*ck would they know" - and then I danced with the beast right up until 5 years ago.



My therapist is of the opposite sex and maybe 30 years younger than I. Like you, my bullshit screen went up immediately. My mind closed immediately but she laid down the ground rules. Very simply she said from the beginning " You are a warrior and I'm a mother - I won't pretend to know what combat is like as long as you don't pretend to know what giving birth is like" Hers was both physical and emotional pain that I'll never feel. Mine is pretty much the same. The only difference is she has two beautiful children as the result of her pain. Well, I don't have to tell you what I got. I have been married 48 years to my childhood sweetheart and never spoke a word to her about the shit in my head. Yet this total stranger was able to put me at ease enough for the shit to flow.

I would not have it any other way. She earned my trust.... don't judge the book by it's cover.

(BTW, her husband is a career Marine who has done multiple tours in the sandbox)

Ba

===> First of all, I actually liked that beer! Nice name. I do not plan on talking to any shrinks - especially a civilian woman - or some bookworm who thinks he has The Answers. I probably have pretty significant PTSD from Nam and other places, but so far it works for me. I am now dealing with the Team Leader at a VA Outreach Center, who would REALLY like me to talk with someone. It had taken me over 4 years just to be able to go into the city to see him - we have emailed all that time. He is another Nam vet, Straight Inf, 1st Lt in Nam, saw some action at least. He recently filed my claims for the cancers and diabetes, but I did not let him file for PTSD because I do not want to talk with a civvie moron with a degree. And I think my skills keep me safe!

PTSD? In 1969, a year after I got out, I was at a Bachelor Party for a guy I grew up with. Partied all night, and around 6:30 AM landed in a Dunkin Donuts cause I needed some coffee to sober me up enough to get home.

Was sitting by myself at the end of the counter, and three teenaged idiots were further down. Just us in the place. A balled-up napkin bounced of my coffee cup, and the kids started laughing. I smiled, and said "Funny guys, now gimme a break." Another napkin. More giggles. I got up, went over to them and said, "who's the clown?" The biggest one got off his stool, came towards me, and I kicked him through the front plate glass window. Second one got up, and I broke both his collarbones, and pulled him past me (RAT Tactics), and cocked the third idiot cold. Sat back down and asked the baker (in those days the donuts were made on site) to call the police. Finished my coffee. I was arrested, the baker and waitress testified on my behalf (they had trouble with three yahoos before), and all I had to do was pay $225 for a new window. The kids got probation for disturbing the peace. I easily could have killed all three in under a minute. Worked in small 3-5 man teams in Nam, mostly at night, and we were good - very, very good at what we did.

I knew then that I need to be away from a society that I did not fit back into, so I headed for the deep woods in New Hampshire. I am spending more time assimilating now, but still hit the boonies for holidays - 4th of July, Memorial Day, Veterans Day. I have several Harbor Sites with good survival caches built across all of New England, in case I need to bug out for any reason. PTSD? I guess so, but I am safe. Always.

Swamprat 3

 

[Sleeping Dragon]

Swamprat,

Please believe that you are among those who understand. We did our time in the killing fields like so many others before and since. We are not trying to talk you into or out of anything, especially the things that now work for you.

But, we also know that there are things that you haven't tried that may help. And, keep in mind that you change a little each and every day. What didn't work today may help a month from now.

I want to use counceling as an example. And by the way, you will find many more combat vet councelors at the Vet Centers than you will at the VA.

Anyway, you are absolutely right when you say that only a warrior can ever understand combat and its effects. But, the councelors aren't there to understand. That's not their job. They are coaches, and nothing more.

While in the program you have to do all the work. That's what the homework that the guy mentioned is all about. And the process is extrememly difficult, not for the councelor but for you. But, it will show you things that you will never find on your own.

Timing is very important. If you're not ready for counciling it won't work, and is a waste of time. But, threre are other things that help, and you're doing them right now at this site. KEEP GOING!!!!!!!!!

SD

 

[Swamprat 3]

Swamprat,

Please believe that you are among those who understand. We did our time in the killing fields like so many others before and since. We are not trying to talk you into or out of anything, especially the things that now work for you.

But, we also know that there are things that you haven't tried that may help. And, keep in mind that you change a little each and every day. What didn't work today may help a month from now.

I want to use counceling as an example. And by the way, you will find many more combat vet councelors at the Vet Centers than you will at the VA.

Anyway, you are absolutely right when you say that only a warrior can ever understand combat and its effects. But, the councelors aren't there to understand. That's not their job. They are coaches, and nothing more.

While in the program you have to do all the work. That's what the homework that the guy mentioned is all about. And the process is extrememly difficult, not for the councelor but for you. But, it will show you things that you will never find on your own.

Timing is very important. If you're not ready for counciling it won't work, and is a waste of time. But, threre are other things that help, and you're doing them right now at this site. KEEP GOING!!!!!!!!!

SD

===> I have never talked about any of this with anyone - first wife, second wife, kids, nobody. I only have one friend, and he was an Air America, then NSA spook, but never was down in the mud and the blood like me, but I trust him. And that means something. He convinced me to finally meet the VA Outreach guy to file for the medical benefits, but he never really saw combat. I can't discuss those things with him. But, he has my back. Been in a couple of tight spots with him, and he is not half bad! I have not told him about this site yet. May not, actually. I may say things here that I really don't want him to know - he is my only friend, and I do not want to lose him.

As far as counseling goes, I have no inclination at this time to dive in there. My world is solid and safe right now. I have the control.

My fear is that I am revealing too much already here. I may just go to ground for a while and read what others write. Some of what I have read here is BS, but a lot is legit, if not whining a bit. But that is okay. Many of the posts to me have been very supportive, and I appreciate that!

I just can't see myself talking to some civvie or REMF who has never held a friends intestines In their hands while waiting for a Dustoff. How could they possibly have a clue? What could they say to me? Nothing.

 

[JennyMac]

ok, I cant hold it in anymore....

first of all REMFs are an invention, conjured up by units to make them feel more superior thereby ensuring unit/trade pride and the whole we have more guts, we are more deadly bla bla bla...short story...its a lie that was fed to you to get you to do your difficult job...end short story.

Secondly, I don't know what your problem is with women, I fought in Afghanistan from the air, watched and participated in death every shift I was on....I did not need a penis to find Taliban...just brains.

Thirdly, the main difference from combat ptsd and civvie's ptsd is the training that we have had...it has nothing to do with holding guts in your hands, it is all about the conditioning that we have received in training, trained to react, trained to have routine, trained to strip- a weapon in the dark and to respond to the enemy. we have a heightened sense of awareness and a heightened sense of guilt as we don't fight for our country but we fight for the guy standing next to us. Every single one of us on this site has a story or two, it is not a contest about whose is more graphic or who has seen the most guts and blood and black stuff...we all had training to kill, to survive, to save....you can't judge another soldiers story against your own...it's pointless and has no impact on your severity of ptsd.

Fourth, therapists, male or female, may not get it or they may.....it depends on the person. I am in an inpatient facility getting treatment from numerous people and some are good, some I can't connect with but they all understand my symptoms, they understand why I am there and they get it....you are just like the rest of us no better no worse, you have a brain injury, your brain is physically different than before you went to war, your amygdala has shrunk, your senses are on high alert, and this will never go away...you can only learn to live with it....now you can either work to get and practice tools to live within a non-war-zone or you can sit here, pointlessly measuring yourself...your call.

 

[Sarg]

Thank you Jen, I couldn't have said it better...Oh, and can we knock off all the "dark ops", and "spooks" 99.999% of the time we didn't see them, work for/with them, they are just fodder for all the crappy video games that distort the kids into thinking that going off to war is going to be fun. The very few times I was around that shit, I went/looked/moved the other way.

Sarg

 

[Swamprat 3]

ok, I cant hold it in anymore....

===> Thanks. Don't hold anything in for my sake. I'm good

first of all REMFs are an invention, conjured up by units to make them feel more superior thereby ensuring unit/trade pride and the whole we have more guts, we are more deadly bla bla bla...short story...its a lie that was fed to you to get you to do your difficult job...end short story.
------------
===> Different wars. WE named them REMFS for a reason, and it fit most if them in Vietnam.
-----------/
Secondly, I don't know what your problem is with women, I fought in Afghanistan from the air, watched and participated in death every shift I was on....I did not need a penis to find Taliban...just brains.
---------
===> Thank you for doing what you did over there. Hope you got a lot of 'em! Again, different war. Plus, each person's war experience is unique. There IS a difference when it is up close and personal though. Not better, not worse, just different.

I just personally could never talk openly about MY war with a woman. Maybe a generational thing. I am going to be 67 soon. Maybe I want to protect her, or not judge me harshly. Dunno. She could be the World's Best Shrink, and I, personally, could not do it. Or a man who has not experienced at least being in theater. Just me. A trust thing. Reading, studying, and hearing about it is just not the same. He just could not possibly know. I would not trust him.

---------

Thirdly, the main difference from combat ptsd and civvie's ptsd is the training that we have had...it has nothing to do with holding guts in your hands, it is all about the conditioning that we have received in training, trained to react, trained to have routine, trained to strip- a weapon in the dark and to respond to the enemy. we have a heightened sense of awareness and a heightened sense of guilt as we don't fight for our country but we fight for the guy standing next to us. Every single one of us on this site has a story or two, it is not a contest about whose is more graphic or who has seen the most guts and blood and black stuff...we all had training to kill, to survive, to save....you can't judge another soldiers story against your own...it's pointless and has no impact on your severity of ptsd.

====> Hehehe...I am not judging or comparing anyone's issues here. We all raised our hands and told Uncle we would go wherever he sent us, and do whatever asked. Nothing to do with guts and blood. Some were hip deep in it, some weren't. But they were THERE. That counts to me.
---------

Fourth, therapists, male or female, may not get it or they may.....it depends on the person. I am in an inpatient facility getting treatment from numerous people and some are good, some I can't connect with but they all understand my symptoms, they understand why I am there and they get it....you are just like the rest of us no better no worse, you have a brain injury, your brain is physically different than before you went to war, your amygdala has shrunk, your senses are on high alert, and this will never go away...you can only learn to live with it....now you can either work to get and practice tools to live within a non-war-zone or you can sit here, pointlessly measuring yourself...your call.

-------------------
====> I hope you are finding what you need there, I truly do. I hope you are finding it helpful. For ME, and MY issues (IF I even wanted to 'treat' them), I would not trust ANYONE enough to believe they can jerk my brain around, for better or worse. Especially civilians with just a degree proclaiming they 'know' and can help me 'fix' myself when my safety and security count on my training and reactions. Life itself is a war zone. Always has been. And, you are correct, we always measure ourselves against others, every day, every minute. Otherwise, we are vulnerable to those with no regard for OUR lives, or the lives of our loved ones. On the news every night. I have learned to live with it, very well. I have continued to train, honed many new skills, and it works for me. I may not fit the societal norm, but in fact, I do not want to. Part of the reason I spend so much time in the woods. It is too spurious to me, too vulnerable to just walk around blindly. We should ALL be on alert in public! Those sad news stories would drop dramatically if we were.

I thank you for you opinions, and hope any help you think you need is provided to you.

And I am sorry if I 'triggered' (see? I am learning the lingo here!) your issues, or made you uncomfortable in any way!

I really don't think I fit in here - and I have already caused someone harm. I may have PTSD, but if so, it has kept me and mine safe for decades. All of you want to try to fix yours. I don't see mine as broken.

I am leaving this site. I will file for the cancers and diabetes with the VA, but am not looking to fix anything else after reading here for a couple if days. I hope you all find whatever it is you need. I'm good with it. Thanks for all your comments.

Be well.

Swamprat 3

 

[Swamprat 3]

Thank you Jen, I couldn't have said it better...Oh, and can we knock off all the "dark ops", and "spooks" 99.999% of the time we didn't see them, work for/with them, they are just fodder for all the crappy video games that distort the kids into thinking that going off to war is going to be fun. The very few times I was around that shit, I went/looked/moved the other way.

Sarg

===> I just mentioned who he worked for. I met him in civilian life, I never worked with him personally. I use the terms to tease him at times. I agree those guys were few and far between.

 

[JarHed]

I echo many of what's written above. I was in a terrible place prior to getting involved in therapy. The likelyhood of finding a Psychologist or Psychiatrist that's a combat vet AND qualified and experienced to treat Combat PTSD is 0. The probability of finding a therapist with training and experience in treating Combat PTSD is much higher. Regardless of gender you want someone that knows how to treat your problem.

My Doctor is a woman about half my age. I had my doubts at first but she proved and earned my trust. Something that I don't give easily. If not for her, I wouldn't be here today, I'd probably be dead. Therapy is hard but worth it.

I also know a couple of things. If you've found your way here and are posting, you'd at the least want some feed back from other like yourself, that you'll get here. No one is going to sugar coat anything. I also know that if you've struggled for all these years it's time for a change but only you can decide what that's going to be. We can give our advice and tell you about our experiences but you've got to do it for yourself.

We'll help you when, how and if we can. But truly it's up to you. The future for as long as any of us are here is out there.

Jar