Uh-oh...

[TonyG]

What's the novel about

 

[joeylittle]

@Chava, I'm glad you posted about that statement. I wasn't feeling up to it. But I was bullied for a few years and I've also been raped and had my life threatened. Verbal abuse alone is an awful thing, but completely different from being physically abused.

 

[Polly Sue]

Being bullied by children your own age would certainly be considered a normal part of growing up, even though it could end up being damaging to someone's self esteem. But when you're used to the classroom being a normal, safe learning environment and suddenly you're thrown into a situation where this classroom is a stressful place that you're not comfortable and safe going to, and you know you're gonna be picked on, by a GROWN MAN more than twice your age and with authority over you, day in, day out, then I think she's right in that somewhere in your mind you would associate that with stress and fear, especially if you'd never experienced any other kind of abuse. Seeing as how that classroom was pure hell for me, and every other classroom I've been in has been completely normal, ordinary, and even some that I loved going to, I can definitely see how I would connect bad feelings and emotions along with that time in my life.

By the way, I have experienced another kind of abuse (verbal), not by him, but by my brother, and that's no fun either. It certainly didn't give me ptsd symptoms, but I can remember crying on occasion because I knew I didn't deserve that. I was also unable to really escape that situation too (although I could tune him out, and usually did), because I was sharing an apartment with him so I kind of had to put up with it. It sucked, but at that point I was old enough to know that it was wrong and that what he said was nothing more than verbal diarrhea. But as a little 14 year old, you're gonna internalize everything an adult man has to say about you, no matter how much of an idiot he is or how stupid and meaningless the things were that he said. And I know that it took a huge toll on my self esteem for the years following.

 

[joeylittle]

But when you're used to the classroom being a normal, safe learning environment and suddenly you're thrown into a situation where this classroom is a stressful place that you're not comfortable and safe going to, and you know you're gonna be picked on, by a GROWN MAN more than twice your age and with authority over you, day in, day out, then I think she's right in that somewhere in your mind you would associate that with stress and fear, especially if you'd never experienced any other kind of abuse

Sure. I don't disagree with how one would associate that environment with stress and fear.
I disagree with it being anywhere equivalent to rape or physical abuse.
I'm talking about the experiential difference between words and physical contact. This isn't debatable; they are different stimuli.
Again: that kind of environment is absolutely stressful; the fear one experienced could be incredibly intense.

I hate to say flat out that the experience you had iis not as severe as rape or assault or proximity to death. I'm not sure there's an objective measure.

But according to the only definition of PTSD that is accepted by the scientific community - whether they are right or wrong - unless the words you hear have something do to with being told you are about to die (and you believe it to be true) or the words tell you that your spouse or sibling (or similarly close person) was just killed - then those words do not qualify as criterion A of PTSD.

This is not open to interpretation. A clinician is free to disagree; but they aren't following best practice. My GP could tell me my low blood pressure is a result of too much vitamin K- that might be his opinion. But he's not following best practice.

I want to be clear - I'm talking just as a member, not as staff: I'd encourage you to not confuse trauma with traumatic. Trauma is a medical term. Traumatic is a descriptor for horrible events. They are not really connected when it comes to mental health.

The good news is: traumatic experiences and their aftereffects can be dealt with very effectively using the same techniques that are used with PTSD. So getting into therapy with someone you like and doing the work should help you out.

At the end of the day, we all just want to feel better.

 

[Suzetig]

I think it's fair to say you would associate that experience with stress and fear, especially when it sounds like your classroom situation was the worst experience of your life thus far. I also think of course that would impact you. I don't however understand how a responsible therapist would liken classroom bullying by a teacher with being raped or being assaulted to the point where your life is in danger, which is the part of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD.

I'm in the position of having had all three of those happen to me and trust me when I say the classroom bullying, horrible though it was, was a walk in the park compared to the other two and the impact they've had on my life is incredible.

No one here is saying you've not been badly impacted by your school experience, just that there needs to be an actual type A trauma for diagnosis of PTSD, not a "you'll have responded in a similar way to your non-life threatening trauma" experience. My advice to you would be to stop focussing on whatever diagnosis and engage with the therapy you've been offered - it's clear that you're struggling in some way and whatever the reason, therapy will help.

 

[Suzetig]

Totally cross posted with @joeylittle there, sorry!

 

[joeylittle]

At least we were on the same wavelength, @Suzetig :)

 

[Suzetig]

I know, practically word for word!

 

[Chava]

you know you're gonna be picked on, by a GROWN MAN more than twice your age and with authority over you, day in, day out, then I think she's right in that somewhere in your mind you would associate that with stress and fear, especially if you'd never experienced any other kind of abuse

Stress and fear do not equal "trauma"

 

[Kefira]

I'm also going to throw in my lot with those who are speaking out on the statement that verbal abuse or bulling will cause the same reaction as physically being threatened. I've been trafficked. I've been tortured. I've been raped by multiple people. I've also been bullied and verbally abused and humiliated, sometimes by peers and sometimes by those with authority over me. They are not the same thing. And to insinuate that they are the same, or that the brain will react to them in the same way, is frankly insulting and disgusting. It is also minimizing to the right that we have to physical safety.

That's not to say that bullying and harassment don't have negative effects and far lasting impact. They do. But do not tell me that having a knife to your neck and being told that you're going to be raped to within an inch of your life and then killed for fun if they aren't too bored, is going to be processed in the same way as being bullied, even by a teacher. They aren't. It's why criterion A needs to be met for a PTSD diagnosis.

So frankly, I see two options. Either you're really oblivious and insensitive enough to continue making this argument and wishing for a disorder you don't meet the criteria for and don't seem to have based on your posts; or you're a very effective troll to make everyone waste their time (which they could be using to support people who are looking to heal, rather than to get attention and have people agree with them) commenting on your posts. I for one am done with them unless I see compelling evidence I should contribute.

 

[Justmehere]

Seeing as how that classroom was pure hell for me, and every other classroom I've been in has been completely normal, ordinary, and even some that I loved going to, I can definitely see how I would connect bad feelings and emotions along with that time in my life.

I am surprised you would not connect them with even current events in your life - it's stressful to be a young adult and living up to parents expectations. That's huge to deal with.

By the way, I have experienced another kind of abuse (verbal), not by him, but by my brother, and that's no fun either. It certainly didn't give me ptsd symptoms, but I can remember crying on occasion because I knew I didn't deserve that. I was also unable to really escape that situation too (although I could tune him out, and usually did), because I was sharing an apartment with him so I kind of had to put up with it. It sucked, but at that point I was old enough to know that it was wrong and that what he said was nothing more than verbal diarrhea.

So you chose to share an apartment with a cranky brother. That is something that could bring on adjustment disorder, and I believe that adjustment disorder would probably fit for the teacher experience as well.

But as a little 14 year old, you're gonna internalize everything an adult man has to say about you, no matter how much of an idiot he is or how stupid and meaningless the things were that he said.

No, not every 14 year old internalizes everything an adult man has to say. The most formative years are much younger than 14. But even at 14, yes, kids are impressionable. But you yourself say you had many good classes and good teachers - so in a sense, you did escape it and had positive experiences when you were 14. That would significantly reduce the possibility of symptoms of PTSD later on.
I really think you should seek a second opinion about if PTSD is the right diagnosis. CBT will certainly help whatever your diagnosis is. You are really not describing any events or symptoms that fit for PTSD as a whole. Every symptom you describe could be brought on my adjustment disorder, major depression, or other mental health problems - or just being NORMAL and having a hard time dealing with life. You really may not even have a major mental illness and you may just be in a season a of life of needing some extra support and then you will move on to the happy successful life you want to have. You could also be sabatoging yourself by trying to chase down a PTSD diagnosis. Perhaps you have a deep fear of failure, and getting caught up in believing you have PTSD is a way where you don't have to face your fear that maybe you will fail and you are looking for a reason to justify your failing.

Therapy can help with all of these things, but I think you will need to find a therapist that can look at all options. Sometimes if a therapist really specializes in one area, they tend to see everything as that kind of problem. It's like when someone has a hammer, everything they see tends to be a nail. In this case, I think you need to have a more objective work up done.

 

[Polly Sue]

Thank you for the comforting advice, seeing as how I really don't want to believe that I have ptsd, especially after being told by a mental therapist that I do. I'm not gonna deny that I have some type of anxiety problem, but it's good to know that the awful stuff I went through, though traumatic to me, doesn't qualify as "trauma." Again, no offense to anyone here and my sympathies for what you've been through.