News Us congressman shot

[Justmehere]

Before we start blaming violent crimes on mental illness, let's look at the data. I wrote about this in greater detail here: Help Me With My Math

In summary, studies have shown that less than 5% of all shootings in the US are committed by someone with a mental illness and people with a mental illness are 5 times less likely to commit a violent crime.

This attempted murderer may or may not be mentally ill. If he is mentally ill, and that mental illness prevented him from knowing right from wrong, I'm sure his defense counsel will run with it and try to get a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict. Then if they manage to cure him, he will have have to live the rest of life with the guilt of knowing what his mental illness caused him to do.

There could also be other reasons. This certainly isn't the first time a foster parent snapped and broke the law. This is also not the first nor the last time someone has been gunned down because of a difference in politics.

It is a tragic crime to be sure, no matter the cause.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

The thing is, they are having to reach very hard to paint this guy in a bad light. He was a foster parent and had background checks and home studies done and was approved by the state to be a foster parent.

@desiderata310 advised he had comitted domestic vilonece and that is something that prevents you from getting a gun. I have not done my own checks on this guy but rather going off what is said. I just haven't had the chance to do my own digging. But, is that not correct?

Also, I actually don't see this man in a bad light. What i see is violence spiraling out of control leaving many of us feeling as if we have zero choices.

Zero choices? Expand on that? I see you can do some things if a shooting happens/someone points a gun at you depending on the situation. Run, hide, fight is what (i think) Homeland Secuirty put out as a saftey shooter video. Many things to do inside each. Out in a baseball field they had little choices but again, depends on situation.

What concerns me is not seeing the criminal in a bad light but rather blaming gun laws for the act someone decided to do. It is not the fault of gun laws! It is the fault of the man that picked up a gun, pointed at others, and pulled the trigger.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

And I disagree.

 

[Deleted member 541]

So what would all of you call someone that takes a high powered assault rifle and shoots 4 people???? An upstanding citizen just doing target practice?????

I also agree with @lostforgottensoul in that guns aren't the problem, PEOPLE are!!!!!

 

[Justmehere]

So what would all of you call someone that takes a high powered assault rifle and shoots 4 people????

A murderer.

Or in this case, an attempted murderer.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@Justmehere OK, so is this person that just attempted to KILL 4 people, is he sane??? Has all his mental facilities intack?????? Or does he have mental issues and can't differentiate between good and evil, right and wrong. Does he have issues with emotional regulation? I could go on, but. Think you get my meaning here....

I absolutely destest the person in power in our country, but would I take a gun and shoot him??? NO!!! Not unless I became so out of touch with reality that I couldn't tell the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.

I'm not sue why people have such a hard time with the possibility that this guy isn't playing with all his marbles??? Again, I believe that someone that tries to kill or kills someone is mentally ill. They are working on all cylinders, they are a few eggs short on a full dozen....

 

[Justmehere]

Committing a violent crime is not the example of being a great human being - and I'm not saying that it is.

I am simply saying that there are many factors that play a role violent crimes other than mental illness.

I have no idea if he is mentally ill or not. I have no ability to diagnose and determine if he has a clinical disease that led to his behavior. I also am reluctant to let him off the hook by declaring that clearly he did it because he didn't know right from wrong and an illness made him do it. He could be insane, he could not be. I dunno. I'll leave it up to the clinical pros to figure that out.

Legal insanity in the US is a very high bar. One can struggle with dysregulation and STILL know right from wrong. In fact, one can be hallucinating and still know right from wrong. Most people with a mental illness are legally sane, and thus fully responsible for their conduct.

Clinical professionals who have studied if shooters are mentally ill or not have found that the vast majority do not have a diganosible illness. And yes, it's disturbing to think humans can do such awful things while still being sane and retaining an ability to know right from wrong. Simply knowing right from wrong doesn't mean all humans will choose to do right.

There are convicted murderers in US prisons right now who killed for reason other than insanity. People have killed others for money, power, fame, control, etc... all throughout history. I used to volunteer in jails and I spoke with more than one person on trial for or who was convicted of murder. It was stunning to be confronted with the reality that most of them were not insane. They knew murder was wrong. Did it anyhow. It's very hard to accept that reality because it's f-cking scary.

Evil is evil. Humans make the choice to do wrong every day. If we somehow cured all legally insane people in the world, it would be a wonderful thing, but it wouldn't lead to an end in violent crimes. I wish it would, that would be an easier way to solve problems like this than the much messier reality that many different factors play a role in most violent crimes.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

I also agree with @lostforgottensoul in that guns aren't the problem, PEOPLE are!!!!!

And in what version of a sane reality would *any* person, per your analogy need, or have a right to access a high power assault rifle?

I want to agree that Evil is Evil, but that is yet another slippery slope. I definitely agree that people make the wrong choices daily. And it is so much easier to make them with access to guns.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@ShikibuZ Personally I don't believe that an everyday person should have or own an assault weapon. I never said I did. But we live in the US and people have the right to bear arms, whether we agree or not, it's the law!!!!

I would never own a gun, but I believe that if a person wants or has the need to own one, then they are afforded that right. Until our laws change, then we are stuck with this....

 

[Friday]

Not unless I became so out of touch with reality that I couldn't tell the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.

But that's you. :) It speaks well of you.

Lots of people kill people for different reasons.

Using your standards no abusive parent or spouse should ever go to jail for their crimes. Because they would have to be mentally ill in order to hurt or kill their child or partner. Are some mentally ill, and that's why they abuse, rape, & kill their families? Sure. That's why we have guilty/not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect. (NGRI - Not Guilty Reason Insanity). Are most? No. Most are just abusive assholes. So continuing on with that, one doesn't have to be crazy to kill people they know, but killing strangers makes them insane? Nah.

People's beliefs about what is right/wrong, good/evil... Vary. Hugely.

Killing politicians one disagrees with? Goes back to the very beginning of recorded history. It's something of a time honored tradition, although we don't see it much in this part of the world. That's part of the benefit of democracy. People are rarely in power long enough to engender or necessitate killing them, in most people's minds. But it does still happen. When it does? In the US we tend to shoot them (in public). In the UK they tend to blow up their cars. In other parts of the world people blow themselves -and everyone else nearby- up. Latin America goes for both guns and car bombs, although the shootings tend to be in their homes, instead of in public. The methods vary, the justifications vary, but their sanity rarely does. Someone wants someone else dead.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I just can't wrap my brain around this guy or people like him being SANE and in his right mind. Very much like those that go to schools, movies or malls and open fire. Sick, twisted and IMO, mentally ill.

 

[Fadeaway]

@desiderata310 advised he had comitted domestic violence and that is something that prevents you from getting a gun. I have not done my own checks on this guy but rather going off what is said. I just haven't had the chance to do my own digging. But, is that not correct?

Yes, that is incorrect. The domestic violence charge was dropped because there was a totally different side to the story not being told by the media. He was never convicted of domestic violence and the alleged assault were on friends of the daughter who were putting his daughters safety at risk so he was protecting her against her will.

I am having difficulty finding that article again as so many people are clinging to the domestic violence charge, and anything else they can find on him, but judge determined he was acting in the best interest of his daughter.