News Us politics - read first post before comment

[Deleted member 46276]

@Justmehere: "Ted Nugent:
Exhibit A to prove that just because someone can sing and/or entertain, doesn’t mean we should look to them for political leadership."

I was reading about Ted Nugent and it looks like he has avoided smoking, drinking and drugs for at least 40 years, both while in the rock scene and after leaving it. Very few of his peers managed this. It seems like Nugent believes an outdoor lifestyle and guns in particular have given him a lot starting from his childhood through today.

Nugent has not backed away from his harsh criticisms and I don't think he will because I think he's a true believer in 2nd amendment.

I don't get Nugents need to shoot things anymore than I get what I see as the condescending, mean spirited liberalism of late which I see David Hogg as an example of, so I'd personally like to see a David Hogg/Ted Nugent debate. Of course you might have to set some ground rules since Hogg is only a high school senior or maybe give Hogg an adult co-debator, but Hogg and Nugent are both pretty condescending, name calling assholes so I wouldn't want that part of the circus to entirely disappear.

I mean democracy should involve something like two sides in open debate, not the nonsense we have had were one side name calls and bullies and destroys careers and the other side can't say anything in response because the first side is only 17/18 years old

 

[EveHarrington]

Not if they choke on a condom first.

Safe oral sex gone awry?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Bahahaha @EveHarrington!

 

[Deleted member 487]

I honestly don't know much about this David Hogg kid. If he wasn't shot or shot at, then he's not a victim and has no right to speak up for the true victims.

But I will tell you what I see. He is a bully. He is the kind of prick that causes these horrible events, because he'll select a victim, bully them until they crack, and continue on to the next target. Which I say is the public and he's using the media, who is as hungry for this kind of BS as a starved dog on a hamburger. Don Henley wrote a song about the media- "Dirty Laundry". So true, so true.

I think that David owes a few people apologies. If he doesn't like being 'verbally shot at', he can get his ass off the front lines. Laura Ingraham was wrong to say what she said, and she, on her own accord, apologized. But David is on the front lines. Expect being attacked from all sides, because everyone wants to see what you're made of. You don't just step up and claim to be an activist. You stand up and have a reason. You don't step into the ring without a fight. Your opponents will laugh at you and those you claim to represent will ask "who the F are you?" David stepped into the ring and then...and yes I'll say it- WHINED -because he couldn't take a punch.

I found this out as an activist myself. I have a fight and I had money backing up my efforts, but my last TBI knocked me down. My record shows it, too. So many court cases I should have stood up and fought, but I didn't. I couldn't. The stress, even in cases I knew for a fact that I would win...I wimped out and took a plea. Because of my TBI and resulting PTSD. After #4 I could not handle the stress of court. Funny thing is, this only shows the true cowardice of my opponents. They come after a cripple because they know they'll win. Like gutless spine human trash, they after cripples. Makes my hatred even greater.

I couldn't edit to add a piece I missed- David expects to be protected from the verbal fire because of his age. You don't step up to battle and expect to be treated with kids gloves.

 

[Deleted member 46276]

I honestly don't know much about this David Hogg kid. If he wasn't shot or shot at, then he's not a...

David Hogg was not shot at. I think I read that only one of the group of #neveragain advocates, and not one of the main figures, was ever in in immediate danger.

I think the logical way to come to reasonable conclusions about what is causing a thing is to look at what has changed and what hasn't changed since Columbine, which is sort of the start of this mess.

Gun ownership is near a 40 year low in the US. It's virtually impossible that less guns has directly led to more school shootings.

One thing that has changed is the internet. With the internet comes things like significant support from girls and women for shooters. Nikolas Cruz has a substational group of fan girls who do things like form facebook groups and diluge him with fan mail. This consistently happens and for these young men, most of whom can't manage to get a girlfriend, this may be a driving factor.

Another thing that has changed is media coverage has become massive with high quality photos of shooters being spread throughout the world within hours of shootings, making unknown and beaten down shooters infamous.

Emma Gonzalez has said they ostracized Cruz. Gonzalez is bisexual and president of the gay-straight alliance for 3 years. Another of the girls is openly lesbian. The two main boys have unclear sexual orientation, but are clearly very pro gay rights. All this is different from how society functioned pre-Columbine.

Media has become more belligerent and accusatory from all sides. Social sciences have become more left wing. Video games have become more realistic and violent. Hollywood has virtually made it impossible for Christian conservatives to achieve prominence in film industry. Minorities have found their freedom of speech has expanded and freedom of speech for majority has contracted.

Just saying that to figure out what is causing this thing one actually has to study the problem and ask shooters about their motivations and sometimes things that are easy to look to to find fault and blame are the wrong thing and sometimes things that are highly uncomfortable to ask questions about are actually factors

 

[hodge]

As a fellow PTSD sufferer, @Endofwar, I have to ask you how you could dismiss someone who was in close proximity to a life-endangering situation. Maybe Hogg wasn't shot at directly, but can you honestly say you wouldn't be affected if your friends were or even people in your local situation?

 

[Milo's papa]

I think that we all have our own opinion on this topic and continuing to drag it on is getting no where.

 

[joeylittle]

sometimes things that are highly uncomfortable to ask questions about are actually factors

Are you saying that homosexual teenagers being less closeted is a factor in mass shootings?

Are you saying women becoming fan-girls of shooters is a factor? (That one has been around much earlier than columbine and it’s not just women who are the fans)

?

 

[hodge]

Gah, this is getting too ugly.

 

[Deleted member 46276]

Please don't shoot the messenger on this. I'm just quite certain that if there is a huge increase in school shootings and ownership of guns is not similarly skyrocketing, there must be other explanations, and one can't figure out what those other explanations without at least asking questions about difficult to understand dynamics.

@joeylittle: "Are you saying women becoming fan-girls of shooters is a factor? (That one has been around much earlier than columbine and it’s not just women who are the fans)"

I know that shooters brother has bragged to shooter about how many women they could bed as a result of the shooting, because brother is aware of the reactions of some girls, women and, apparently, older men. I think for shooter, who desperately wanted a girlfriend, and shot up a school on Valentine's Day, this is something other than a non-factor.

@joeylittle: "Are you saying that homosexual teenagers being less closeted is a factor in mass shootings?"

That's not exactly what I was referring to. Emma Gonzalez (the bisexual, buzz cut sort of second in command girl) has said they ostracized the shooter. I'm not really sure who "they" is but if she is referring to, but if it's people like she is associating with in the #neveragain movement or in her gay-straight alliance she has been president of, it seems like her friends tend towards gay/gay advocates. If shooter was the wierd kid to gays/gay advocates and they ostracized him while also having certain hate crime/hate speech/them being seen as victims protections he might have had some frustration towards society about this...like they get bullied and they say hate speech and there is protection, they ostracized or maybe even bully me and there is nothing. Also, if gays have become off limits to harass, then other misfits might get harassed more since there are going to be bullies and they are going to bully whoever it's safe to bully

 

[Deleted member 487]

If Hogg and his friends want to make a positive impact, then go after who is really to blame- First, Cruz. He did it, the NRA didn't. Second, the school. They recognized a problem in the beginning and they did nothing. And finally the school kids. They knew Cruz and still turned him away. He wasn't good enough for them. If someone, just one, had reached out to him when they saw he was in distress, 17 people might still be alive.

 

[Fadeaway]

Way to take it out of context. She said was ostricised for talk of hurting and killing people back in Jr. high. As it should be. People took that to mean bullying, nope, just rejection of his desire to commit violence.

If shooter was the wierd kid to gays/gay advocates and they ostracized