News Us politics - read first post before comment

[somerandomguy]

Joe Lieberman

started out as a moderate Democrat and drifted into the right wing, like Giuliani (except Giuliani was a moderate Republican of course). He's also a political has-been with probably just as much knowledge of the lran situation that any of us have.

 

[Sideways]

He says Soleimani was a threat to US security and responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans and thousands of Syrians.

My understanding is that this goes a long way back. Essentially as the second in command in Iran, he has been considered responsible for many coalition deaths (often orchestrated through militia/terrorist groups) for some time. Both Obama and Bush before him had the question of whether Soleimani should be assassinated put to them. Both considered that an attack like that would be too provocative with Iran, and carry too many risks of direct conflict with Iran.

So (and I'm not a Trump supporter!) Trump seems to have pulled this off where the 2 previous administrations considered the move too risky.

It remains to be seen how effective his replacement is in terms of moving towards stability, or provoking further civil unrest in the region. It also remains to be seen if there is any further fallout. It probably doesn't upset American citizens too much (because, why would it!?) but any further negotiation of any kind, on any matter, between the US and Iran during the Trump administration is not going to happen. Arguably, that gives Iran a form of power in the region, or you could argue the exact opposite.

Wouldn't want to be steering a tanker through the strait of Hormuz right now!

 

[Neverthesame]

@Sideways I thought Iran already seized a British tanker a few months ago for "delivering oil to Syria". Seems like they already don't give a shit who they mess about with, they seem perfectly content to just do what they want, when they want.
This latest tantrum is just more of the same.

They raze an Embassy, they receive one well placed missile to an appropriate target.
How do they respond? They slaughter 176 civilians, who's only crime was to occupying Iranian airspace.
What does Iran have to say for themselves? "Oops." and only that much because they couldn't destroy the evidence fast enough.

Like you, I'm all for a peaceful diplomatic solution to the problem, but as it is. I think you're right, with Trump in the White House they have the power to commit atrocities and the world blames Trump for it. I know that's not what you meant, but it seems to be the case from where I'm sitting.

This has been such a bizarre four years.
You gotta understand, I hate Trump, I think he's a boorish lout that needs to stay the hell away from Twitter. Yet for some reason I find myself defending him, over and over again. Even now with Iran, I don't think he did wrong, and honestly I feel that had this happened during anyone else's presidency, you would have a very different reaction from the American people. The Orange man just ain't that bad. It's crazymaking,
I'm supposed to be a liberal, but lately..... I don't what I am anymore, politically homeless I guess.

 

[DharmaGirl]

I would love to discuss politics, but it always ends up being a blame game. I think that both sides are horrible at this point. They are acting like children making nasty comments about each other. This is what our government has become. A bunch of babies throwing fits and blaming each other. Where are the adults? Why do people have to insult each other, or otherwise indicate that the other side is stupid because they don't agree? One person's opinion is not any more credible than another's. Like assholes, everyone has one. It just slays me to see our government degraded to this level.

This was not directed at anyone, just my asshole, err opinion.

 

[The Albatross]

Like it or not... governance is political. Opinions ARE like assholes... however, apathetic voters got us where we are in the first place. Education and being an informed person is key.

 

[DharmaGirl]

Thanks, I'm not interested in playing the blame game.

 

[The Albatross]

Interesting comment considering that I haven't seen any "blame" being dished out in the last several pages. Political current event discussions aren't for everyone though true. Yet here you are.

Of some significance yesterday: "the Anti-Corruption High Court of Ukraine ordered NABU to investigate the coup in Ukraine and the looting of state budget funds and international financial aid by representatives of President Obama’s administration in collusion with Mr. Poroshenko”.
The name of Joe Biden, the former U.S. vice-president, already involved in the case of the Ukrainian company Burisma (where his son served on the board of directors), also appears in the documents provided by the deputy. The Ukrainian opposition parliament deputy posted this information on his Facebook page, along with copies of the documents proving his claims." Though more aptly the investigation is likely Pres. Obama's Administration rather than the former President himself.

Also in the feeds former State Department Ambassador Marie Yonanovitch and House impeachment "witness") might have some 'splaining to do.

Senate Impeachment begins next week (Tuesday?)

Lot's of speculation about how the DNC is going to deal with not having a break out front runner coming into their convention (only 6 months away - July 13th thru 16th in Milwaukee) and what will happen if the first vote round fails and they resort to the new rules (adopted August 2018). It might be then a "brokered" convention. "The 2020 Democratic convention will be the first to operate under new rules surrounding automatic delegates which the DNC adopted in August 2018. Under the new rules, automatic delegates will be prohibited from voting for a presidential nominee in the first round of voting unless that nominee has enough support to win the nomination in the first round with pledged delegates alone." Biden at the moment is the "front runner" but is the weakest leading candidate in quite a number of years.

 

[DharmaGirl]

I haven't seen any "blame" being dished out in the last several pages

however, apathetic voters got us where we are in the first place.

 

[somerandomguy]

I'm okay with blaming apathetic voters. The polls showed that a lot of voters in the last presidential election didn't bother to decide until they were actually in the voting booth, which isn't the ideal way to do it. I suspect that outside influences (i.e. Russia) tend to work best on those types of people.

I'm also okay with blaming the folks who didn't bother to vote. As usual, lots of qualified people skipped voting and then complained afterwards - for example, somehow Obamacare got much more popular after Trump was elected and got ready to dismantle it. Um, he constantly said, over and over, that he was going to dismantle it! Part of the whole reason he was elected was because the people who voted for him wanted him to dismantle Obamacare! If you don't vote, I don't think you should get to complain, either.

 

[Mee]

I'm okay with blaming apathetic voters. The polls showed that a lot of voters in the last presidential election didn't bother to decide until they were actually in the voting booth, which isn't the ideal way to do it. I suspect that outside influences (i.e. Russia) tend to work best on those types of people.

I'm also okay with blaming the folks who didn't bother to vote. As usual, lots of qualified people skipped voting and then complained afterwards - for example, somehow Obamacare got much more popular after Trump was elected and got ready to dismantle it. Um, he constantly said, over and over, that he was going to dismantle it! Part of the whole reason he was elected was because the people who voted for him wanted him to dismantle Obamacare! If you don't vote, I don't think you should get to complain, either.

I think that’s fine too, but it’s also not contradictory to dharmagirl’s point. You , me, anyone, can blame who we want, and she can feel it’s reductive or redundant. I blame all of us, which might be the same in effect as not blaming anyone ? ( but with a classic for me guilt and responsibility slant!)

 

[The Albatross]

Political discussions are just that. Discussions. Blame/shame/guilt stuff ridiculous. I am not responsible for Dharma's offense or perception. I did not single her out. It was a general statement. Nor did I tag her.

Any ways. Threw out some topics but short of any actual discussion will just leave it where it lays.

Supreme Court to take up one of the suits about the Electoral College: U.S. Supreme Court takes up presidential Electoral College dispute

Lev Parnas backpeddles now denying speaking with President Trump when he claimed previously he had: Parnas now denies speaking with Trump despite reports he claimed he had

 

[scout86]

Of some significance yesterday: "the Anti-Corruption High Court of Ukraine ordered NABU to investigate the coup in Ukraine and the looting of state budget funds and international financial aid by representatives of President Obama’s administration in collusion with Mr. Poroshenko”.

Have you got a source for that?
Everything I've found, so far, suggests that this system works a lot like ours does here, where the courts don't order investigations, they pass judgement on the results of investigations. As I understand it, part of the reason that court became possible was that "coup" (or popular revolt, depending on how you look at it.) As I understand the situation in Ukraine, there's a long history of officials using their positions for their own benefit. Occasionally, they might do something that's for the good of the people too. Establishing that court was something the international community (the International Monetary Fund, the EU, the US...) pushed for, during the Poroshenko presidency. I'd say it's potentially a good thing. But that doesn't mean Poroshenko wasn't helping himself somehow at the same time. (I have no facts one way or the other on that.)

The Electoral College is something we need to rethink, for sure. This business of people losing the popular vote but winning the election is getting kind of old.