What Is 'big' Enough To Leave For Good?

[Philippa]

I was reading someones comment earlier in a thread, and the basic jist of it was that they had heard that a girl they knew had suddenly cut off her parents, and that he thought "It must have been something big for her to do that" as most people would think.

I have struggled with gaining a proper perspective of what is 'big' enough for a person to make that sort of decision in the past.

I have also struggled with my own decision, and wondered whether I am just being 'petty' like everyone says, and my friends might be right when they look at me and seem to give the impression that they think I 'give up on people too easily', when they haven't really been in my situation and don't know what I went through.

I have had other friends encourage me to never speak to my father again because he killed my pet mouse years ago, and they did not think that was a small thing at all. It wasn't, to me at the time. But that is not just the reason I made the decision to cut them off, and I know that.

So, I am wondering what people in this community think personally is "Big" enough to make such a big decision. I am guessing that everyone will have varied responses as to what is big enough to them, and am not necessarily looking for re-assurance here, although I do admit, when I read things like that, it does make me fall back into thinking maybe I'm being petty like everyone says.

I mean, does a person have to spend their whole lives being around people they don't really like, just because they raised them and paid for their education?

Even if I wasn't molested by my father, and have no proof other than just KNOWING that he did something to my brother, and invalidation and emotional abuse is "only" what I have experienced...does that mean I have to give my time to someone who doesn't treat me well, because i know that people who have had terrible sexual abuse happen and still hang out with their parents?

It's a very personal decision to make, and outside input can sometimes help and sometimes cause more confusion and bad feelings to the person who is considering such a big and painful move.

 

[Heidi07]

Hi Philippa, I also decided to cut my parents out of my life 4 years ago. Of course I got responses from my friends too saying that they are getting old, or that they are my parents and I should forgive them, just forget the past, blablabla

My mom physically and psychologically abused me as a kid. I am 43 years old now and have started therapy for PTSD only 2 years ago. Being in touch with my controlling mom was and is bad for my health. When I went to visit them, I needed a week afterwards to recuperate. It stressed my out so badly. Just the same with phone calls from her. I had to think about myself and my healing process. I asked myself if it was beneficial for me to keep in touch with her? The answer was no. My mom thinks she did nothing wrong to us as kids. I could not talk to her about it as she is in denial and I truly believe that if she had treated my sister and me better, I would have made different decisions in life, would not have had the other traumas happen to me.

I am in touch with my sister and she tells me how they are doing. But I do not regret breaking contact with them.

 

[Philippa]

I have this voice in me that says I did the right thing for me, and it's very assuring, despite having had all the same things said to me as you just described. I don't see the point in going through life dreading the people who you are supposed to WANT to be around and talk to the most in life. If I don't feel that way, then I need to listen to that.

Thankyou for your input. I guess I did need some re-assurance that others go through the same thing. On top of it being so hard, you also have to deal with people around you, 'friends' also imposing their own thoughtless remarks on you that are always about the parents feelings and nothing about how it affects you.

I've gone my whole life being subtly told that I'm not as important as them or anybody else...but that's crap. I'm JUST as important as everyone else. And what I want is just as important as what they want, and if the two needs and wants clash, then it is not up to me to bend to make them happy.

Honoring yourself in this world is probably one of the hardest things to stick to.

 

[Heidi07]

Philippa, that voice in your head is important to listen to. You need to do what is right for you. It does not matter what other people think. YOU are the most important person in your life. If we don't take care of ourselves and what is good for us, nobody else will.

Only keep those people in your life that are good for you and your well being. It's not an easy thing to do but will make you feel much better.

 

[Philippa]

It's interesting because one of the women who has been giving me these sorts of attitudes has started to drift away from my sphere, and it might be because of her views of me? Whatever the reason, it is probably for the best. I had high hopes for the friendship, but so much stuff has happened that has changed the whole flavor of it, that now it feels like we are more like casual friends that see each other once in a blue moon...and that's ok.

Another friend who I wasn't sure about for a while has proven herself to be someone who is interested in learning from me, and doesn't make her opinions right, and has been understanding, so I guess that is one good thing that comes from this...you get to learn who your real friends are.

Yes, if the people in my blood family are not good for me or make no positive contribution to my life at all, and just use me as a venting service, then I am better off without them. I tell myself this so much, but emotionally I have trouble feeling that it's ok. I feel justified one minute and then terrible and guilty another. Then I start missing them, and forget why it is I moved away from their company in the first place, adn then am rudely reminded when I do go back..."Oh yeah, THAT'S why I didn't want to see you again...becaus eyou're a total douchebag and probably always will be."

Wise words Heidi. Sometimes I need that reminder.

 

[p-no]

the people who you are supposed to WANT to be around and talk to the most in life.

In my life, this is something from my past, my family's brainwashing. Family is all it is: people in your life that you haven't chosen. You had no say in this. But legally, of course, that has more consequence to it. And that's the whole point: If you can't get help or out (if necessary and wanted) before you're legally an adult, you're stuck. But as soon as you are legally an adult, you get to choose. And then the "friends are the family you choose"-idea comes into effect. Re-brainwash with good stuff! There is no need to be around anyone that you don't want to be around. Not in your private life.

There was a time, only this year, in a session with my t when I said that I considered abuse being this or that. My t almost fell off her chair; her definition of abuse started with things that were way "below" those things I had brought up! What I had defined as "horrid" and what she did, were totally different! I was way, way off! So, you decide about the definition of "big".

For a long, long time, all I asked myself about keeping or ending relationships was: Can I live with this? Not realizing that the more important question was: Do I want to live with this?

I can live with a lot (a lot of abuse, etc.), but what I want or not want to live with has made all the difference.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Phillipa, you are the only person who knows what is best for you.

Ofcourse other people will offer their advice based on what they know. But you know more about what you experience, so you can listen to the advice and take anything that resonates with you and leave the rest.

Giving advice isn't being judgemental. But if, like the friend you mentioned, a person can't accept you as the best decision maker, then it is better that they walk the other way.

If you make decisions based on other people wanting you to do what they say, then you are being controlled, rather than being in control.

 

[Philippa]

Thankyou prime-no, that was very helpful.

Do I want to live with this? That is the million dollar question.

I also think that because we teach others how to treat us, that when it finally sinks into my fathers mind which is heavily steeped in denial at the moment...that he will know now more about me, the real me...not just the image he had of who I am.

Some people don't get it until you leave for good...then they learn. Unfortunately this rule applies to men in relationships. They don't get the lesson until it's too late and you've left them...then they realise what they did and want to change. It's too late by then of course, and even if you went back, they might say they want to change, but once you are back they see no need to, and continue the behavior, until you leave again.

 

[Philippa]

If you make decisions based on other people wanting you to do what they say, then you are being controlled, rather than being in control.

Yes, I agree.

Thankfully I am stubborn and head strong as all bejeezuz, so that hasn't been an issue, but it has certainly been interesting to see these people drop away from my reality.

The woman I was referring to asked me if I spoke to my father on my birthday, and sounded all full of hope, like she wants us to make up and be friends again...like all family 'should'. My father called me, and sent emails, but I didn't answer or reply.

I think because her father died that she has some sort of opinion that I 'should' make the most of it with him while he is still here, and it's funny because I seem to have a lot of people I know who have lost their father in my reality, and I do feel like I am doing something terribly unnatural at times when I think of them, or listen to them saying how much they wish they could speak to their father again.

It's hard not to let that get to you, and interesting that life throws this at me when I am in this situation. It's hard not to think I am supposed to learn a lesson from them about apreciating my parents while they are still here, and all that. I have all the internal messages that other people are throwing at me, like "But he's getting old" and "He's not going to be around much longer" and blah blah. I don't even need all these people guilting me...I can do it all by myself in the privacy of my own head.

 

[p-no]

Some people don't get it until you leave for good...then they learn.

The reason as to why they learn (to a certain extent that completely varies, and does not imply "long-term learning") is that you break the normal cycle. You do something differently and all of a sudden they can not do what they usually do. The dysfunctional system which has been working as such, suddenly doesn't work anymore. That's all that leaving really does: show those left that you have broken the cycle. If you don't follow up on this, i.e. if you went back and then stayed, nothing would have really changed, the dysfunctional cycle would just have been amended a bit, but still be dysfunctional and working as such once again.

Unfortunately this rule applies to men in relationships.

I wish for you that you will experience that not all men are like this. I think it's the men you have had in your life (it's that way for me), but there are others. The million dollar question that remains for me in this respect is: Will I find one of those other men? I hope so.

They don't get the lesson until it's too late and you've left them...then they realise what they did and want to change. It's too late by then of course, and even if you went back, they might say they want to change, but once you are back they see no need to, and continue the behavior, until you leave again.

You have written this, I find, focussing on the men. What I really like is turning the focus to you in this little paragraph: You left again. Congratulations, and I am being serious. It can be incredibly hard to leave and put what you want and do not want to live with first. And painful, too. Because you end up alone again. And don't we all have enough of that already?

 

[Philippa]

The reason as to why they learn (to a certain extent that completely varies, and does not imply "long-term learning") is that you break the normal cycle.

Yes, it's that unpredictability that spins their head, that loss of routine I guess. So much that goes on in a dysfunctional system seems to be just keeping everything at a familiarity which holds the security of the status quo in place. Even when I do speak to my brother, after a whole year, the conversation is the same crap he talked about with me last year, and the year before that, and the year before that as well. It's like these tapes that just loop over and over.

I wish for you that you will experience that not all men are like this. I think it's the men you have had in your life (it's that way for me), but there are others. The million dollar question that remains for me in this respect is: Will I find one of those other men? I hope so.

Yes, I do apologize to the male contingent on this forum. I realize that this was something I thought and learned about men when I was in my twenties, and that I was mostly involved with men like this, but that does not mean that all men are like this. I do think that it is something that many men in their twenties do learn by though. Perhaps in their thirties and older they get the lesson and do not need to continue the behavior...but yeah, unfortunately, as yet I have not met any like this.

We can always hope though. Thankyou for calling me on that prime-no.

You have written this, I find, focussing on the men. What I really like is turning the focus to you in this little paragraph: You left again. Congratulations, and I am being serious. It can be incredibly hard to leave and put what you want and do not want to live with first. And painful, too. Because you end up alone again. And don't we all have enough of that already?

Thankyou for the acknowledgement prime-no. And for placing the focus back on me. I needed that.

 

[p-no]

...but yeah, unfortunately, as yet I have not met any like this.

I don't think it's the age... I think with each and everyone of us it's just, well, how to say, development? Like, all that makes me me. That does include age. But it doesn't mean that people in general get wiser just because they're getting older. Or just because they have a certain profession... It's all those little things that a person is made of as a person, everything.

Are you really, really sure you have never met one? I am asking because I said the same thing until about half a year ago. Then I opened up to my t who asked me this question over and over in the sessions. Just asked, no pressure. And when I opened up to the possibility of having met a man like that before, I found I had. I also found that he had not been noticed by me because he seemed so not normal in comparison to what I had known as normal. Turns out my definiton of normal was just wrong. My focus has changed, and so I am sure that "hope" is not the only thing we can do. :)