Who's Afraid Of Dissociation?

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Hijack away! Anything you want to share that takes off from any point in the thread if fair game! :) You are considerate to even worry.

 

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Abstract,

Your reply could have been written by me. I understand, and so, I am sorry you feel this, too. ((((HUGS Abstract))))

It's a scary move to expect and look for someone who may actually be ready to deal with me where I am at. Maybe I've been throwing my money (and self) away on those unworthy to take me on. Maybe I do not believe myself to be worthy of a therapist able to help. I know I have denial in this area. I struggle with identity, trust, and belief systems of meaning: all the things the article says I will not have a hold of, I also feel he pinned me down to a T.

I also appreciate that he says that EMDR is a "fix" or cure for one-time PTSD for those with minor PTSD. This is kind of like a colleague, a fellow professor with more experience, who said that college instructors don't really want to "teach;" they want "Hamburger Helper" students they can throw together, who are ready-made to learn the material at hand. I loved his metaphor, but we teach English after all. :)

I'd say those of us with complex trauma from childhood or that took place in part of our development so foundational to everything else, we are NOT "Hamburger Helper" clients. Far from it. So we need a Julia Child-level chef to throw us together. We are hard work.

Like one of my favorite TV (British) comedy characters, Bernard Black (of "Black Books") said: The pay's not great, but the work is hard."

Abstract, I am with you. I hope we find our worth and take hold of it, never letting go. We are hard work, but may we feel that we are worth it.

Love, Muse

 

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Article author believes PTSD is NOT essentially an anxiety disorder. He sees it as a dissociative disorder. I have not read that opinion elsewhere. And what I have researched indicates that it is both, and that some people have more of one aspect than another.

Question: Do you feel that this opinion has any basis? It seem a bit chicken/egg or horse/cart to me? What say you?

Muse

 

[Abstract]

Thank you ((((Muse)))). I am touched.:shy: Same back to you if OK. I really appreciate what you said.

You might want to look at two sources (if you haven't done so already) if you want to consider that question. The one is looking at structural dissociation theory (primary, secondary, tertiary) and the other is looking at a website investigating this question. [DLMURL]http://understandingdissociation.com/[/DLMURL]

In the latest DSM it isn't an anxiety disorder any more and listed under trauma along with adjustment disorders, if I understand correctly. The dissociation issue has two camps from what I understand, Some for and some against.

Personally I go back and forth with it. The structural dissociation theory makes a lot of sense and feels right in certain ways for me personally but then I look at the anti camp and I am not sure.

 

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Thank you for all these resources to follow up on my question about dissociation. You have also been researching it. Good for you!!! We can't run from it, can we?

Sometimes I swear I dissociate my dissociation. Then, I get all symptomatic again. I have to wake up and start all over, noticing my body, noticing when I feel things (body or emotions) that I don't like or don't understand that trigger me, and I have to face it, label it, talk it out loud, and take care of my body.

The article says to drink warm. I agree in the AM this helps sooth me into my day; but if I'm dissociated, I have to move and drink cold to "snap" out of it.

So I don't see so much the anxiety; it's more the avoidance of pain, triggers, and almost all emotions if they pull up the whole lot of it.

Abstract, I appreciate your sharing this. I will be reading it tomorrow and seeing if there's anything I can bring back here.

Love, Muse

 

[Abstract]

:)

Sometimes I swear I dissociate my dissociation

This is a phrase I have used many times for myself since I have started what I call my awakening (slightly tongue in cheek here)! As I uncover each layer of understanding I am astonished at how I could totally ignore the existence of so much and for so very long. I have been reading obsessively for the last two and half years or so now but not much in the last 6 or so months. More recently it is all starting to settle which is good.

Thanks for sharing, Muse.

 

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I'm having a lot of memories "come back" to me while I am on vacation. I guess it's obvious that working two jobs is a coping mechanism.

They keep coming and coming. Some of them I have trouble believing. Since they come from a frightened child, I have a hard time unpacking them.

I would like to write the one that just came down and try to process it before it slips back into the rubble where "it's all buried."

I tried to use the diary, but I guess I missed when that was changed. Okay, I guess I should post here.

Potential trigger warning for family violence:

As I was making dinner and thinking about the TV show I just watched in which a mother who's daughter had died was angry that her daughter had upset her once, I began thinking about how my mother controls the whole family. I was thinking of how she uses powerful, non-verbal means of control. I say she "programmed" us.

Then, I suddenly got a memory that was very strong and make something else make total sense that didn't make sense before. (Sorry, I know this is confusing; it is so hard to communicate child memories.)

I saw the green bridge over the river, in a rain storm at night. I was in the car, and the sound of the rain pounding the car and the sleepiness mixed with the terror of not knowing why she was taking me, us, to this place at night. My instincts were that she was really upset, angry with my Dad, maybe she knew. Maybe she thought it was best to put us out of our misery. But she just sat there behind the wheel, composed, in control. I was terrified then. I saw that she had the power to kill us all, to drive us into the waters churning below the bridge.

Then, it's blurry, but I think I recall her getting us bundled and putting us in the car, my sister and I . My sister had been sleeping maybe? I'm not sure. I remember knowing something was wrong. I didn't want to go. I couldn't stop whatever was happening.
Sitting in the car, I came to realize that my mother was thinking about killing me. Some part of me died then. I don't remember what happened after that. I can't bring up the ride home. We just left, but something inside me "left home."

Okay, this connects to my "finding" a missing child part in a dream that was zipped into a compartment of that same Ford Bronco. I had been frantically searching for this missing child part and had enlisted help from my H. We searched a large storage area. In in we found the car, and I sensed part of my soul in that car, I found her, and she didn't look like me. She looked more like a doll, very innocent and trusting. That was the part that "left me," the part that was naive and trusted its mother. That was what left the night I realized she had been thinking about ending my life. I didn't even know if it was because I disclosed the abuse too many times and the threats she made were not stopping me. Maybe she just wanted me gone anyways. I have never known why she rejected me around the same time I started talking about the abuse.

Now I believe that she was in shock and had some trauma from my disclosures. I am not defending her at all.

This memory is so foggy and dreamlike. I was so afraid yet nothing was said, so I really didn't know what was happening. I was a smart kid, and the PTSD gave me a 6th sense about danger and my parents' moods. I could read them and know when they were going to hurt me, which made it all worse, because I couldn't stop it. I would just try to numb myself with whatever means I had to make it through. I even learned to completely black out on command and "go away."

Maybe after I saw she was contemplating killing us, I "went away" so that I wouldn't have to stay for that, and that's why I can't remember what happened and how I got home.

This memory has come after a bunch of little rejections that made me feel "unloved" or her coldness. They, I have remembered from time to time, taking them out and dusting them off, and mourning them the best I could with whatever developmental level I had.

This one is foggy and dreamlike, and I was dissociating slightly as it came up. I wanted to send it back, both due to its fuzziness (can I trust this?) and because, frankly, fuzzy stuff red flags that it's trauma memory.

But I still can't "feel" this one. I sense it. I am still holding my breath. I can't breath and feel this memory. I am now feeling the shock of it, that she would sit there and think about killing us. Was it murder-suicide on her mind, or was she just going to throw us in? :(

Now I get it why I get a weird feeling about these bridges. It was that 70s green, and it looked like the same one that recently collapsed near Bellingham, WA.

I feel something now. I feel that I was terrified because I had these two people supposed to take care of me, and they couldn't or wouldn't. I didn't know if I'd survive much longer, or if my siblings would be hurt more than me, or be killed in the family.

Now I remember this, somehow, it hurts, but it's okay now. I fully accept that I was scared, but I am alive. I am okay now, safe now. She didn't kill me; and, now I understand why my Trauma led to other Traumas, and kept going. No wonder my life felt like a nightmare, constantly, randomly, for years.

Deep breath. Thank you anyone who reads and can share. I have trouble validating the memories; how can I be sure this is real? Flashbacks, they don't feel like memories. They are so suddenly real and yet not real.

Muse

 

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My Husband/supporter, who knows my mother well, mentioned that maybe something else was going on, but that I was terrified. He has seen her jealousy. So maybe she was really out to catch my dad "red-handed" as it were. Maybe we were not facing death. I do accept that since I had PTSD then, I may have over-reacted to triggers, such as being taken out of bed, and lack of parental trust and safety.

I say, even if she was taking us to go spy on my Dad, that was adding to my traumas, because of the lack of safety with their constant fighting. And her jealousy was her major distraction from being a mother to me. So either way, whether we were there for one reason or the other, it was traumatic given the context.

Context, and lack thereof, is hard on kids who can't defend themselves and are aware of that fact from actual experience. It's like, what next??? So even small things, like this, seem huge.

The other thing that has plagued me is that I cannot now ask her "What was that all about?" because it is all lies and lies upon lies. So I will never know "Why?" I only know what effects it has had. I also know that kids need to feel in control and safe and consistency. They need to be clued in.

I need to take this into account as a mother and teacher. My kids need clear expectations and consequences that are reasonable, talked about, and part of their sense of power.

Muse

 

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Abstract,

As I reread your posts, I'm wondering if you have found a good trauma therapist for dissociation and PTSD who is a good, trustworthy fit for you. Have you found someone?

It's okay to say that you haven't. I took a long break from therapy and am just now trying to get back into it.

I also wanted to touch base with you on selective muscular stuff, like fainting and such. I'm reading my replies and thinking "What?!?"
Sometimes I can't believe "I" wrote some of my posts. Sometimes I get on here and read my own posts and totally have amnesia for posting the post. So, I'm aware of my dissociation. Being on the forum can trigger dissociation for me, I suppose.

Basically, I wanted to share that I have noticed for the past year and a half that I have been dropping things in the kitchen when I'm slightly dissociated or symptomatic. For example, my toddler screams and throws a tantrum. I do some breathing and try to stay calm. This keeps my ears from ringing in my head, but I find myself dropping the spoon I'm cooking with.

This dropping feels like my body has gone numb without my realizing it. Thus, my grip loosens and I don't feel it until I notice I've dropped something. This keeps happening. I am therefore not consciously aware of all the many levels of dissociation.

I had a painful medical procedure done. The doctor seemed to notice I "went away" because she asked if I felt discomfort. In having to respond (ie. "come back" to present in my body) I suddenly did feel the pain more, but then the procedure ended. The next day, I had an ultrasound, and the technician asked about the pain of the procedure. I said it was not painful at all, just uncomfortable. She seemed taken aback. She said that everyone reports it is so painful that she is of the opinion that people should be anesthetized for the procedure. I began to feel "weird" again, thinking I must have had a different procedure. But I checked my file online, and it was the painful one. So I guess I "checked out of my body" without intending to, and got out of the pain. I guess that is a good thing in a way. I also felt like I woke up from a nap. :)

Long post, but wanted to touch base with you, Abstract. I can really relate to your posts and feel a connection there with you. I hope you are finding some joys in the journey.

XOXO Muse

 

[Abstract]

Hi Muse,
:)

It took me a moment but then I realised what you were referring to. That was a while ago now! I fairly often don't recognise what I have written. What I think is real or relevant seems to be state dependant. I have huge problem with writing or saying something and then thinking I have lied when it comes to anything PTSD or trauma related, including symptoms.

Thanks for sharing. Your description of loosing control of your hand is an exact depiction of something I have done as long as I can remember and yet only ever considered a few years back when it improved markedly. All of my dissociative stuff just was and I never gave it a second thought for most of my life.

I am grateful that most of the muscle control loss versions of this stuff hasn't been prevalent recently. I am much more present and in control than in the past. The biggest issue muscle control wise now is still verbal and speech related.

I am sorry that you have had the dropping stuff happen. Do you think you have been particularly stressed recently when it started?

I also relate to the pain thing. That has also improved but I am as tough as old nails usually.

Thank you for asking about trauma T. I am edging in the right direction I think. Excruciatingly slowly. The "work" I have been doing on it seems to be getting me much closer.

I am still blocked at present though. I do this thing where my mind empties completely and I can't think at all whenever I have tried to take the next step. It feels a bit closer though and I think the time is nearing to get more resources on board and see if I can budge it a bit.

I have tried everything over the last year and consciously have been determined and connected to doing it but my mind has had other ideas. Very disempowering and frustrating.

I am so very sorry about your mother. On so many fronts. Both for the terror and that she didn't protect you and instead reacted in a personal way. I can see your husbands point here too but sadly when you are a child (or anyone) what we perceive to be happening is how we are affected.

I will never understand how it is that family react like they do. It shocks me. I have had it too although about something mild. I do wonder if their brains just can't cope with the reality and they therefore have to change it or justify it to cope. That and pure sordid self interest or lack of empathy some times.

How are you doing with getting back into therapy?

Thanks again for your kind thoughts. :)

 

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Hi, Abstract,

I'm glad to hear of your hands working better with muscles. Yes, I do think you are right that this has been worse after the flashbacks and stress levels peaking.

I'm sorry to hear that your mind draws the veil across your eyes when you try to do trauma work. That is a very familiar experience. It's like those doors that roll down shut before you know what's even happening. Does your T. say much about this?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on trauma work. I think any progress is worth mentioning because it really takes step by step to reach the goals.

XOXO Muse

 

[Abstract]

HI Muse, :)

Sorry to hear the flashbacks and stress levels are up. Its interesting how our bodies express ourselves sometimes isn't it? I suspect it is often quite symbolic but am often still unable to tell how.

To be clear it isn't trauma work that I meant. It is just taking the step of looking for a therapist for example. I will get as far as logging onto the computer and as I go to type in to search for someone my mind hits a complete blank and I cannot do or say or think about anything. Eventually I can come back to thinking but as soon as I try again it happens again. Something similar ish happens when I try to think of trauma though. But the T issue is stopping me getting a T. Sorry if that sounds weird.

Thus, my grip loosens and I don't feel it until I notice I've dropped something. This keeps happening

Some of it for me seems that I am so disconnected from my body that I almost forget to control it. Sometimes it is as if that part becomes anaesthetised without me realising it. Sometimes I and my surroundings (like the spoon for example) feel so unreal that holding onto it is just irrelevant in a way.

Oh and by the way, you didn;t say anything wrong back then. :)

Take care.