Why do so many men see me as a sex object?

[Toheci]

In the same way that most women are gold digging bitches.

Meaning neither statement is true.

If it’s true in your...

There may well be some or at least a little truth to both "most men are assholes that think with their peen" and "most women are gold digging bitches."

Like it or not, we are descended from animals and there tends to hierarchical structures in animal groups. Like look at Donald Trump: I think he's totally aware that he can go from attractive wife to attractive wife only because he's wealthy and there will always be women lining up to be the next wife. Guys are somehow aware that if they can somehow prove their dominance or success by becoming wealthy, famous and revered, a successful athlete, etc they will get access to hot chicks and women line up to have sex with/marry guy who proves himself. So the game is totally understood even if everyone, especially women, say the game doesn't exist or it has different rules than it actually does. So men arrange their lives to be somehow successful in ways women will like and then women tend to behave as expected.

I wonder if I am high functioning autistic or not, but things where people say one thing and then do another is highly confusing and stressful to me.

What gave me ptsd or ptsd-like symptoms is I believed gays were victims who do no wrong and women are supportive and nurturing and like romantic nice sorts. So I am in college and finally have girlfriend and her gay friend won't leave me alone with endless pressure to have gay sex bragging about converting straights and telling me he'll "lube up" so it doesn't hurt. I think all this is bizarre, but I believe gays are victims who will do nothing to straights. Then, apparently, my continued refusals to have gay sex bothered him too much so him and his boyfriend sexually assaulted me after drinking. Then girlfriend blames me for cheating with her gay friend because she doesn't believe me and female gay-activist best friend becomes friends with gays after hearing about sexual assaults.

So I check myself in hospital and am told problem is somehow with me.

So then I still believe gays are victims and there are more manipulations into gay sex and women seem to view me as weak and undesirable because of anxiety/issues from first sexual assault. Etc.

So, to me, things that people say or believe on a societal or group level that aren't actually true might become extreme sources of stress to me because I might interpret what is said at something like face value.

So, on the sexual harassment of women issue, I agree that it is a big problem, but women blaming it all on men without taking any responsibility for how women as a group tend to react makes no sense to me. And I don't mean this to mean how individual woman are treated, an individual woman might be as confused by people's inconsistencies as I am.

To me, the main issue is that if woman want to be left alone, they have to (woman as a whole, not individual woman) show men as a whole (not individual men) that being aggressive jackasses is not a good idea and women might actually choose to have sex with the guy in the corner who isn't good at lying to women or comfortable with endlessly annoying women and that it truly isn't a better strategy to endlessly annoy women than it is to leave women alone

 

[Toheci]

I agree 100%.

It may surprise you, however, that when I have said so on this site, several women disagreed.

They said...

Human behavior is simply extremely complicated, so there is rarely one explanation for anything. Computers go to "does not compute" at the tiniest logical inconsistency and people must continue to function no matter

 

[Epovu]

To me, the main issue is that if woman want to be left alone, they have to (woman as a whole, not individual woman) show men as a whole (not individual men) that being aggressive jackasses is not a good idea

How? I think women as a whole are screaming at the top of their lungs that it isn't ok to be an aggressive jackass. I don't know what more we can do as a collective whole.

women might actually choose to have sex with the guy in the corner who isn't good at lying to women or comfortable with endlessly annoying women

That is totally creepy and disturbing. So you are saying we should choose to have sex with a guy because he fits a certain profile instead of someone we find attractive? You do know that every woman has personal tastes and not all women find the same thing attractive right?

Guys are somehow aware that if they can somehow prove their dominance or success by becoming wealthy, famous and revered, a successful athlete, etc they will get access to hot chicks and women line up to have sex with/marry guy who proves himself. So the game is totally understood even if everyone, especially women, say the game doesn't exist or it has different rules than it actually does.

Wrong. They get access to females of a specific personality type that happen to be a vocal minority. The game only exists for those type of women. Those type of women don't care about the guy himself, they care about the money and fame. They are the type to post endless selfies on social media. There is a term for that, it is called narcissism and it is a mental disorder. So, basically those guys are going after women with a specific personality disorder.

I am sorry you were sexually assaulted, it is awful and you didn't deserve that, but your views on women actually makes me somewhat afraid of you. Well not you exactly, but I do fear meeting guys like you in person. I find it is the men who are bitter towards women who are the most dangerous.

There are different reasons men rape, Of my assailants, they each had their own motivation, but it is the guys who claim to be nice guys and are bitter because they were friend zoned who are the most violent in the end.

 

[Toheci]

How? I think women as a whole are screaming at the top of their lungs that it isn't ok to be an aggressive jackass. I do...

Again, what gave me ptsd like symptoms are other people's inconsistencies. You being inconsistent does not make me wrong.

Please understand where I am coming from where I previously believed women and liberals are supportive and accepting and gays are mostly victims and then I was confronted with a reality where none of these things were true which then, in tern, no one seemed to believe what I experienced was actually reality. Then I again believed something I was told and a whole bunch of things happened which, again, did match my experiences. And almost any time I have tried to talk about it there is some new blame or accusation against me. It is difficult to ge any sense of self or sense of self worth when all personal experiences or observations based on experiences result in blames and accusations.

 

[Toheci]

Again, what gave me ptsd like symptoms are other people's inconsistencies. You being inconsistent does not make me wro...

Above I was trying to explain how things seemed to me and this was met with "creepy and disturbing" and you are "somewhat afraid of me". Do you see how this is the whole problem? I have tried to see psychologists and they inevitably end up becoming very upset with me and trying to blame and accuse me because I am accusing women and gays of not being perfect victims, but I am not trying to be creepy and disturbing, I am just trying to talk about my experiences and how things seem to me

 

[Uca]

Again, what gave me ptsd like symptoms are other people's inconsistencies

No, someone being inconsistent is not going to cause even PTSD like symptoms. If you have PTSD like symptoms but not PTSD it is still going to be from being sexually assaulted.

Please understand where I am coming from

I am trying to, but it isn't easy as I have no frame of reference outside of understanding what it is like to be the victim of sexual assault. Everyone Can you try to do the same with me, I understand the same challenges I am having trying to put myself in your shoes goes both ways. My responses to you are based on MY experiences. They are subjective, not objective, just like your beliefs due to your experience. It doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. It isn't like we are discussing concrete scientific facts here like the distance to the moon.

I previously believed women and liberals are supportive and accepting and gays are mostly victims and then I was confronted with a reality where none of these things were true

The problem you appear to be having here is black and white thinking. Your previous beliefs were black and white and now your current beliefs are black and white. You also have some major over generalizations going on. Please take a look at this thread. Name that distorted cognition (thought/perception) Reality is There are supportive women and non supportive women. Sometimes a single women can be supportive and other time she can't be. No one can be the same all the time. There are supportive liberals and not supportive liberals. Not every one defines liberalism the same way either. Checking that as your political party just means the one you identify with the most. Some gays are victims, some aren't some are abusers some aren't sexual orientation doesn't make you a better or worse person.

I understand you aren't trying to be creepy. You are making statements however, that based on my purely subjective experience, that I look for when trying to avoid certain types of men. I think if you stopped making gross generalizations you would receive a different response. My guess is that it was the gross generalizations that upset them. That they were frustrated because they couldn't get to stop thinking in black and white. Just my guess.

I have known a lot of great gay guys who wouldn't hurt a fly, but I have also been hurt a a gay former friend of mine. Not on the level you have, but he did betray me by using something I told him in confidence against me and to turn others against me. My being hurt by him didn't mean he wasn't a victim of some pretty awful gay conversion therapy. Nor did what he do to me have to do with his sexual orientation, nor did it change the way I see gay people. Being the victim of sexual assault at the hands of more than one male doesn't mean that I see all men as rapists. It does however make me feel very vulnerable and highly alert for signs that a man could be a possible rapist. My biggest fear is that men will misconstrue my intentions. I actually have more trust issues with women than I do men due to early life experiences, but that is completely on me, and it is my responsibility not to make gross generalizations about anyone of either sex. While my emotions tell me one thing, I have a brain that can think logically and remind myself that my trust issues are because of specific people and not the group as a whole.

 

[Toheci]

No, someone being inconsistent is not going to cause even PTSD like symptoms. If you have PTSD like symptoms but not PTSD...

I appreciate the long, well thought out response. I believe that you are trying to be even handed and thoughtful. I Do not know how to respond to individual points by quoting them.

It really wasn't the sexual assault that was traumatic, it was the lack of validation and victim blaming/victim ignoring that was traumatic. I thought A was true and A turned out to not be true in my experiences, but then people still seemed to be convinced that A was true and seemed to be blaming me because they thought A was true even though it wasn't true in my experience. I think it's probably somewhat like the dynamic that might happen with priests or community leaders, or parental figures etc molest a child. Like one has a sense of reality based upon priests are these always doing right leaders of right and good, and then they do wrong and no one is there to do anything other than continue to repeat that priests are all excellent advocates of right and good even though this might be the exact opposite of an individual's experience. The event does not actually have to be that bad if the sense of reality gets screwed up.

I understand how the way I explained might sound black and white, and maybe my expectations were a bit black and white because I am highly introverted and grew up mostly avoiding people with no or few friends, so it was a bit difficult to get nuanced ideas about expectations about people when there isn't much of a history of complex interaction. But I generally reason sort of opposite of black and white, it's more just that large ideas are difficult to explain in non black and white terms.

Something about this board is it seems to be mostly women. Also, women seem to be much more likely to attempt suicide, while men are more likely to actually succeed in committing suicide (this might be wrong, I'm going from memory and not looking up). I think there is a thing where women tend to get sympathy and men are expected to deal with things on their own and might be viewed as weak if they don't deal with them well. And in my experience, this is not an irrational fear, it actually happens that men tend to get blamed and women lose interest at signs of weakness from men (this is my observation which might or might be true, but it's whatexperience tells me is true).

Regardless of the causes, in my experience, there seems to be significant pressure on men to not show weakness which might explain parts of numerous behaviors. Like women don't as often have to initiate relationships and, if they do, and the guy rejects them, it's a little acceptable for them to complain to their friends about the rejection and to gain support...men tend to sometimes get made fun by friends for approaching woman awkwardly or get accused of being creepy, etc....sure the guy might be creepy, but how often does a rejected woman then get made fun or ostracized or straight forward punished for how creepy she behaved towards a guy if she misjudged a situation or doesn't know how to approach guys?

I just feel like it would be easier for men and would result in generally better behavior if women ban together and punish aggressiveness and jackassery and approach, or at least make it easier for, awkward guys who have no idea how to talk to women and aren't all that good at lying or being aggressive, because it does seem to me like no signs of weakness, aggressiveness and lying are often actually rewarded, even if women don't actually want these things. And this banning together of women does seem to be sort of happening with recent mass sexual misconduct punishments.