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News Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism

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I think the direction the thread is going is so typical as to why it's hard for white people to talk about race. Cops or white people are slammed as an entire group. How do you respond to that.
I would argue that it is not slamming people as an entire group, it is bringing to the fore that there is a complicated system in place to which we all contribute at one point or another in which white people are granted privileges others do not benefit from.

I'm really annoyed that I cannot remember where on NPR I heard a segment wherein a man who had some sort of participation in the discourse of equality (I can't remember if he was an activist, and academic, etc.) talked about the first time he realized his privilege. He and his grad student friends formed a club to talk about issues of equality back in the 70s, because the school did not offer gender studies courses and the like at the time. He said that two of the female students were debating whether all women are subject to the same issues. One student was black, the other white. It went like this:

Black female: "What do you see in the mirror before you walk out the door?"
White female: "I see a woman."
Black female: "Right. I see a black woman. I know that everywhere I go, I'm perceived as black."

The interviewee said that it struck him then that when he looked in the mirror, all he saw was a person.

This is the bare basics of privilege, the privilege to take for granted that you are society's default creature, living without the presuppositions placed upon other groups.

It's based on emotion and nothing I say will penetrate their belief.
If "it" is the feeling that racism is a systemic issue, I beg to differ. We have excellent data and other forms of reliable reporting that says institutionalized racism is, in fact, a thing. I'm pretty damn sure I linked to several examples early in the life of this thread about the school-to-prison pipeline and other examples of racism being systemically enforced.

Why it is so hard to talk about these things is because people perceive that the notion racism is institutionalized and contributed to by everyone (whether of color or not) at some point or another is an attack on individuals or an isolated group like "white people," "white males," etc.

This is absolutely not the case. We are all subject to institutionalized racism and the effects of white privilege (whether we are white or not). It is not painting a group with a large brush at all, because we are not talking about individual acts of racism. We are talking about racism as a system, which is much more difficult to get one's metaphorical hands around and proverbially wrestle with.

Once we can face what exactly it is we're dealing with--a cultural, systemic institution of imbuing some groups with benefits and privileges where others are lacking or, at worst, out-and-out set up for failure by this system--then the difficulty becomes not perceiving the conversation as an endictment that white people must fix it. Realistically, no one group will ever figure out how to begin turning the tides of institutional racism, and it is not the obligation of one group to do so, because we are all willing or unwilling participants in this broken paradigm.

Nevertheless, it is difficult not to take personally as someone with privilege that you are responsible for solving the issue because you belong to a privileged class of people. We are all reponsible for attempting to raise our awareness of this system and to attempt not to contribute to it however we can interrupt its insidious currents.

Everyone in the US hates each other. Blacks hate Whites and Latinos Whites hate Latinos and Blacks, Indians Hate Pakistanis, Puerto Ricans hate Mexicans, Africans hate African Americans, West Indians Hate African American...

Sure, but racism between "ethnic" groups and "caucasian" groups is different... because it is not about hate, it is about a system that protects privilege for those who have it and suppresses threats to that privilege.

Institutionalized racism is so, so enormous, so abidingly powerful in its influences, so omnipresent, so insidious. It is bigger than what people think of as being racism. It is bigger than one group vs another. It is so big that is nearly impossible to point out.

Racist rhetoric and acts are, if you will, like a mountain. It's big. It's looming. It seems difficult to shift. Institutionalized racism, however, is like a tectonic plate. It is underlying, vast, and its existence is taken entirely for granted most of the time by all groups.
 
I've seen the school to prison pipeline many times. In a typical example, a poor minority is arrested for weed or riding a bike on a sidewalk. They are arraigned and plea guilty and end up with a fine. Because of poverty they can't affordit, so a wwarrant is issued and now they have two crimes on their record. Because of a criminal record it becomes difficult to get a job so they 'hustle' sell weed or pills, something like that. Eventually they're arrested usually via an unconstitutional 'stop and frisk' policy charged and because of their prior record are sentenced to jail and acquire a bigger record...and so on and so forth....

A White person has their weed confiscated or told to not ride their bike on the sidewalk, in general. Then crime statistics reflect that minorities are criminals and then tougher laws, more profiling, more disparate sentencing ad infinitum.
 
I went to a privileged school @Ed Norton and saw kids do clusters 20 things in the street that later on I saw other kids go to juvenile detention for one of those things. The difference was White skin privilege.
 
I have followed and unfollowed this thread several times because I was trying to avoid posting. I didn't want anyone to assume that I'm 'playing the race card' in acknowledging that there is institutionalized racism. That's why I made my posts (on this topic) unemotional. I was extremely hesitant to post but in light of my getting off the topic, I felt quite obligated to say something germane to the subject at hand.

Both types of racism are very dangerous and even deadly both the 'Hate' racism and the institionalized form. I don't think that there will ever be a change or an end to it though. There's no chance. A part of me did want to just sit back from this thread and let the White people talk about racism! LOL
 
Institutionalized racism is so, so enormous, so abidingly powerful in its influences, so omnipresent, so insidious. It is bigger than what people think of as being racism. It is bigger than one group vs another. It is so big that is nearly impossible to point out.

If it's so big it is nearly impossible to point out maybe that's because most of it only exists in their minds. If you look for racism everywhere you will find it everywhere.

We have excellent data and other forms of reliable reporting that says institutionalized racism is, in fact, a thing.

Can you give the studies and location of data. I would love to see it. If there is institutional racism somebody forgot to notify me about it. I need to get my white institutional membership card.
 
With the fear of shifting the topic back to law enforcement. There's 2006 FBI report about White supremacist infiltration into PDs. Although, I am certain that it's not infiltration but something that's always been. If that's not institutionalized then I don't know what is.
 
College Dean Accuses Texas Officers of Stopping Her for ‘Walking While Black’ — Police Claim Dashcam Video Tells a Different Story

If your convinced the world is racist and your preoccupied with that premise then you see it whether it exists or not. Google the above and watch the video. Nothing in the world I say will convince the Dean she isn't the victim of racism.
 
I'm pretty sure this was posted here already, but here it is again @Bill Dickerson. This is a good place to start if you're having trouble with the idea that numbers back the theory of institutionalized racism. I have posted many sources earlier in this thread that is evidence supporting that institutionalized racism exists. I'm a bit too hot-headed to start pulling out academic journals at the moment.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/aaronc13/this-comic-perfectly-explains-what-white-privilege-is

Edit: @Bill Dickerson Fixed. It's visual, so I'm not going to "spell it out."
 
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I think the direction the thread is going is so typical as to why it's hard for white people to talk about race. Cops or white people are slammed as an entire group. How do you respond to that. It's based on emotion and nothing I can say will penetrate their belief
system.



It's painting a whole group with one big brush. Are all priests pedophiles or all black people lazy of course not. I feel so sorry for folks who actually believe the above quote. It has to be a very sad world to live in.
fair for that comment, I usually remember to qualify that good people are found in even the worst of institutions.

My main point still stands, that the costs to cops who are caught blatantly offending are next to zero.

Conversely, those who shine a light on malfeasance, pay a massive price, often it appears, being deliberately put into deadly situations.

And yes, all too many cops, the world over, appear to be drawn from groups who see nothing wrong in using violence to enforce majority norms, whether behavioural or racial.

In Britain, people of afro carribean background, suffer twice the average rates of schizophrenia compared to Britain or the carribean.

A psychiatrist, invited over to see if what was being diagnosed as schizophrenia, did indeed correlate with his experience of schizophrenia in the carribean, rather than some intercultural misunderstanding...

Got arrested and locked up by London's finest, while driving from his hotel to the hospital...

Driving while black, and not carrying proof of id. Neither is a crime. But hey, if there's no cost to acting like an 1850s Mississippi slave patrol, or aa 1980s south African apartheid thug, it seems London's chubby blue line were more than happy to act that way.

Once the psychiatrist was found and freed from his cage, he was able to confirm that yes, black people in Britain do develop schizophrenia at about twice the rate of Africa or the carribean. His experience very possibly gives some indication of why.
 
Once the psychiatrist was found and freed from his cage, he was able to confirm that yes, black people in Britain do develop schizophrenia at about twice the rate of Africa or the carribean. His experience very possibly gives some indication of why.

Mentalhealtnamerica.net::The cause of schizophrenia is still unclear. Some theories about the cause of this disease include: genetics (heredity), biology (the imbalance in the brain’s chemistry); and/or possible viral infections and immune disorders.

Bad cops don't cause schizophrenia. Having dealt with many, many, subjects with that condition along with many other mental disorders I am having difficulty understanding the connection. I've found that most interactions between LEO's and such subjects a great deal of compassion and understanding is shown. I've actually had to arrest one such subject to prevent them from freezing to death. That may seem excessive from a civilian standpoint.

My main point still stands, that the costs to cops who are caught blatantly offending are next to zero.

I'm not sure what it's like where you are but just Google cops in the US and you will find many instances where officers are tried and jailed for inappropriate behaviors. In the last couple of years the pendulum has swung the other way. It has become increasing likely to be fired and or charged for just the perception of bad acts.

In turn Officers are more reluctant to be proactive and the crime rates have exploded. Many folks live in a Pollyanna world and are shocked by video of cops just doing the job. People very often don't comply with nice requests to handcuff themselves and get in the squad car. The same being for the kind request to stop shooting at me and just lay on the ground. I am often frustrated by people who comment on why there is six cops on top of that guy or why did they spray that fellow. Obviously they have never tried to handcuff someone who didn't wish to be cuffed. It may seem violent to an outsider but it's actually an effort NOT to injure a person. I suggest they do ride along to see what the police have to deal with on a daily basis.

My dad was a cop in the 60's and very little thought was given to injury. You were more likely wake up being dragged into the jail after being knocked completely out with a blackjack.

Driving while black, and not carrying proof of id. Neither is a crime.

Sometimes living a civil society mistakes (like not having an ID) are made by law abiding citizens. Once it was cleared up I assume he was released. Look at it from the LEO's standpoint, what if the fellow was a murder suspect and it was found out later you casually released the fellow with out IDing the person. The same law abiding citizens would be screaming for the head of the Officer who dared commit such an offense.

As for the driving while black maybe the person driving the car just happened to be black. Any Officer in his right mind would never chance being sued for a civil rights violation. I had a Sergeant in the training academy who related you better tow the line with the law because the person who you stepped over the line with will sue you and be driving your truck and living in your house.
 
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