News Woody Allen Is Not A Monster. He Is A Person. Like My Father.

[ms spock]

There were no charges or evidence of him being a child abuser.

You are too kind Valentino. That is the BS they make up. They ALWAYS have an excuse. Child protection is not served by believing them.

 

[Abstract]

@Pencil. Sorry about your daughter. :( Well done for reporting it.

I suspect catching things when someone is very young is sometimes different to when they are older. It also depends on how much awareness of harm the child had in the beginning. Some children are just acting out what happened to them without any awareness of harm and never ever do it again when they understand things better. Even without treatment. But others, some who were abused and many who were not, can have sociopathic or narcissistic tendencies and they will always be this way.

Not sure if you are familiar with the case of Jon Venables here in the UK. He displays the type of situation that probably develops a lot of the time but quietly, out of public view.

That doesn't mean that anyone hard wired doesn't have good in them or at least appear to be normal in other ways. They could have a good sense of humour, be charming, do nice things for others. It doesn't mean that that has any impact at all on the sadistic and violent aspects of them though. Look at Ted Bundy. He is a perfect example.

I think thats the key problem - people look at the normal and the good and the charm and they cannot accept or reconcile that there really is a hard wired evil in there that isn't going to go away. They can't fully accept the bad because the good is visible in front of it and they don't understand that type of bad because they are not like that. They can't hold that good and that hard-wired bad in their minds simultaneously.

Personally I think one of the main solutions is to educate the general public again and again and again that someone is unlikely to look or act differently to anyone else. That that does not mean that that is all that they are are and that that does not mean it is likely to all go away by itself somehow.

I think the article does touch on that.

 

[ms spock]

Okay it scares the crap out of me that people could possibly misunderstand what I am saying so as to have sympathy for Jesse Ryan Loskarn. That is exactly what we have to give people the skills to see through. I am obviously not communicating very well or in a coherent manner.

 

[ms spock]

@Pencil if it was not too long ago you could report it to the police.

 

[Abstract]

@Ms Spock, I think I am slowly understanding more of what you mean. You and I have much that we both believe in with a few fundamental and important differences.

I agree with the extreme importance of creating healthier family environments with secure attachments.
I agree with the education of children on how to be assertive, what not to accept and how to protect themselves. How to identify someone dangerous and what to do about it.
I agree with doing a lot of education of the general family when there is a history of abuse within it.
I agree all adult and most child perpetrators are hard wired and manipulative and will say and do anything to avoid responsibility and appear changed and to find a way to get at children again.
I agree that peoples misconceptions that someone will look bad and be pure evil stops them from seeing that charming Joe So in front of them is a hard wired paedophile and capable of monstrous acts.
I agree that a community keeping watch of a perpetrator is better than not.

What I don't agree with is that any of that requires a child to remain in contact with a known perpetrator.
And that it is a good idea to tell people that perpetrators are normal or "just like you" or not monsters. I don't think that will ever get them to hold both the good and the reality of the bad in their minds at the same time. That it will ever get them to understand what they are dealing with. It's not the monster label that stop them seeing what is. It's not understanding that monstrousness and normal or apparently normal can live in the same person.

I admire your courage in talking up. Others actions are their own but you can be proud of yours.

 

[Pencil]

Okay it scares the crap out of me that people could possibly misunderstand what I am saying so as to have sympathy for Jesse Ryan Loskarn

It seems to be a problem on this thread - I think it is because the issue is so highly charged emotionally. I don't think it is because you're not communicating clearly.

 

[Pencil]

I agree that a community keeping watch of a perpetrator is better than not.

I agree, and this, I think, is key. People need the realize that the general public, by behaving like ostriches, actually enable.

 

[ms spock]

@Ms Spock, I think I am slowly understanding more of what you mean. You and I have much that we both believe in with a few fundamental and important differences.

I agree with the extreme importance of creating healthier family environments with secure attachments.
I agree with the education of children on how to be assertive, what not to accept and how to protect themselves. How to identify someone dangerous and what to do about it.
I agree with doing a lot of education of the general family when there is a history of abuse within it.
I agree all adult and most child perpetrators are hard wired and manipulative and will say and do anything to avoid responsibility and appear changed and to find a way to get at children again.
I agree that peoples misconceptions that someone will look bad and be pure evil stops them from seeing that charming Joe So in front of them is a hard wired paedophile and capable of monstrous acts.
I agree that a community keeping watch of a perpetrator is better than not.

I use the term child rapist now and not paedophile - because that term obscures what they are.

What I don't agree with is that any of that requires a child to remain in contact with a known perpetrator.

I refused as a teenager to have anything to do with my father/rapist. Recently I didn't go to a funeral of my aunt because he was there. So my personal choice was to not to have any contact with him. But this did not protect me from other abusers.

So I don't think a child needs to remain in contact with a known perpetrator.

The fact is that most kids are in contact with unknown/known child rapists. In my family I estimate that they child rapists have access to between 20-30 children. You can report and nothing happens because they live in a wealthy suburb.

In Australia depending on what stats you read are 1 in 2 girls are sexually abused and 1 in 4 boys are sexually abused before they turn 16 or 18 depending on the research you read.

or 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 6 boys before they turn 16 or 18 depending on the research you read.

or 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys before they turn 16 or 18 depending on the research you read.

Kids are in contact with child rapists in their families, homes, extended families, in their preschools, in their schools, in scouts, in brownies, at sporting events, at music lessons, any extracurricular activities, their churches and so on and so forth.

So people have a fantasy that there are none of these people in their children's life. So it not a matter of if the children come in contact with child rapists it is when and how much connection the child has to the primary carers and whether the primary carers have had a history of child sexual abuse. Child rapists seem to be very fond of parents with history of CSA.

So doing protective behaviours in the family of origin can cut it off the other child rapists. If a child knows an adult is unsafe and is not to go anywhere with this person it can short circuit a mistake from happening.

If it is done with great forethought and planning the child can be kept safe whilst everyone around them learns the signs and how to manage the situation.

Or you can have the sitution of a mother that condemns another woman for having highly supervised access with one of her child rapists, who feeling superior leaves her child with her sister - where the grandfather/child rapist visits and sexually abuses the child for two years. It has to be done very, very carefully with consideration.

I can see why you disagree with me. But I am thinking now harm minimization and realistic managing.

Kids are in contact with people who sexually abuse children. That is pretty much a fact of life. How consciously this is managed determines whether a child rapist seeks an easier target.

And that it is a good idea to tell people that perpetrators are normal or "just like you" or not monsters. I don't think that will ever get them to hold both the good and the reality of the bad in their minds at the same time. That it will ever get them to understand what they are dealing with. It's not the monster label that stop them seeing what is. It's not understanding that monstrousness and normal or apparently normal can live in the same person.

You might be right. Which is a real shame for the next generation. Unless you have some other ideas.

I admire your courage in talking up. Others actions are their own but you can be proud of yours.

Thanks

I have obviously not explained this well. And I wish I had had a chance to find out how people are managing and doing this but people came in all heavy handed and judgmental without actually finding out what was going on first.

For me not having children was the only way to go and I knew that at 15. But I do admire people who really try to do the child protection thing in a concrete way.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

That is a bit of a straw man argument.

No. It's not.


I am not advocating giving our child rapists a hug be they male or female.

Yes. you are.

You are attempting to present rapist as normal human beings. They're damaged souls. They're dangerous and a detriment to society. And should be treated as such.

Otherwise people unwittingly allow child rapists to sexually abuse their children because they have no strategies on child protection. Because they weren't protected themselves.

So now blame the parents for the actions of rapist? That's an extension of blame the victim. Boo! That's the same flawed mindset as our current gun control nonsense. Lets outlaw guns and everyone will be safe theory. hahaha Pedophiles are worse than drug addicts. How about society place the accountability where it belongs? How about understanding evil exists in this world.

Yes. Woody Allen made a few good movies. And maybe he's has other normal qualities. And? So what. He's still a pedophile. Hollywood missed a chance to educate society. What a statement they could have made. His movie received an award. Good for him. The man didn't have the balls to accept it himself. He sent a WOMAN to accept it for him. She's a disgrace to society.

Can you imagine the applause heard around the world if as he accepted his award everyone silently walked out leaving him standing on live TV. Yes. That's a world I want to live in.

 

[Pencil]

report it to the police

It is too long ago, and they have moved to another province. The main reason I didn't go to the police was that I had no idea how it would affect my daughter - I didn't want to make things worse for her. She was really freaked out. (I never wanted her to be curious about male anatomy, so I made sure she was relaxed with nudity, so I found it interesting that she KNEW his behavior was SO OFF that she was disturbed by it.) In a way it was perhaps almost a positive experience .... Let me explain. The police social worker teaches all pre-school kids about 'strangers' in her outreach program. J often asked me what strangers actually did. Only after the incident did she understand. I therefore felt she had been made aware, 'innoculated' in a way, and so I didn't want to risk another possibly negative event (police) to obscure the lesson she learnt - that strangers are strange people and not unknown.

 

[Pencil]

Yes. you are. You are attempting to present rapist as normal human beings

No she's not. Go back and read her posts again.

 

[ms spock]

You are attempting to present rapist as normal human beings. They're damaged souls. They're dangerous and a detriment to society. And should be treated as such.

I am not attempting to present child rapists as normal human beings. Unfortunately there were many in my family. Many child rapists present themselves as normal human beings and fool a lot of people until it is too late.

Given that that child rapists are so widespread in every strata and section of society what do you propose to manage the child rapist's behaviours so they don't sexually abuse the next generation?

By what raft of behaviours do you identify both male and female child rapists?

I don't believe that they have souls.

So how does treating them as dangerous and a detriment to society protect the children? All that means is people don't want to see a member of a family through that lens and go into denial thus enabling the child rapist to continue their behaviours.

So now blame the parents for the actions of rapist? That's an extension of blame the victim.

If one of the parents is the rapist and the other looks the other way I certainly blame the parents. If parents hand over children for money to adult money I blame the parents. If parents know that no one should leave a little girl alone with Pop because he is not good with little girls but do so any way yes I blame the parents. If a child tells their parents that a priest is sexually abuses them and they do nothing then yes I blame the parents.

Most sexual abuse happens as father daughter incest. Are you aware of the statistics on that?

The majority of child sexual assault occurs in the family home committed by family member.

My father sexually abused me - if my mother and the extended family hadn't looked the other way there is no way he would have gotten away with it. Same with my grandfather and apparently my grandmother.

There is extensive research done on the dynamics of incestuous families. If one person won't look the other way or challenges the grooming behaviours it won't happen.

Warrick Middleton has written a lot on this, but I am sure there are experts in the states that have done research as well.

Child rapists look for the families that have the poorest attachments between parents and children. It is how they select their victims and when they plan their grooming.

Mostly Child Rapists - they grow their own - have their own children. So yes in that case a parent sexually abusing their child is to blame.

That's the same flawed mindset as our current gun control nonsense. Lets outlaw guns and everyone will be safe theory.

Well we banned guns in Australia and we are much safer with fewer deaths, shootings and suicides.

How about society place the accountability where it belongs? How about understanding evil exists in this world.

Well I lived with evil for the first 15 years of my life. When I told everyone about it no one wanted to know.

@Survivor2Thriver I don't know if you are aware on the research on incestuous family dynamics. You might find it interesting reading.

Yes. Woody Allen made a few good movies. And maybe he's has other normal qualities. And? So what. He's still a pedophile. Hollywood missed a chance to educate society. What a statement they could have made. His movie received an award. Good for him. The man didn't have the balls to accept it himself.

Can you imagine the applause heard around the world if as he accepted his award everyone silently walked out leaving him standing on live TV. Yes. That's a world I want to live in.

I would LOVE to live in that world too.