What's The Point Bettering Yourself If It Just Means More To Regret?

[kari]

I got a decent career break recently, and it felt pretty good at first, although scary and daunting at the same time. It's a big deal for me, because I spent a lot of years doing low prestige jobs that embarrassed me and barred me from socializing with people I wanted to socialize with. I'm not a status whore exactly, it's just that my interests aren't the interests that people of low social status tend to share. So I've just been alone and bitter.

Now it's getting to the point where if one of those people who rejected me were to ask, "What do you do?" I might be able to tell them without them recoiling in disgust.

Only, I'm not really in the mood. I'm feeling down actually. Every time my standing improves, the picture of the past gets even grimmer in my head. The regrets about all the wrong turns and disasters get even heavier. I say, "Why did I do this? Why did I do that? I made a fool out of myself so many times. I could have spared myself so much grief if I'd only made a different choice at that juncture."

And also, as I move up, I really can't shake the feeling that I just don't belong. I'm a disgusting piece of trash that's contaminating this space, and someone's going to out me any minute. They don't want me here. Shit, I'm sweating like a killer in church. It's unbearable. I just want to go back to the shit hole I came from and stay there. I don't want to live as a pest in someone else's house.

So I just feel like working to better myself is pointless because it just makes me feel even more shame over the past, and I know these people don't want me here.

 

[Ega]

Hating yourself & feeling like you don't belong anywhere? Pretty common theme round these parts.

 

[Nohog]

Hey kari
I can relate a lot to what you say as I am in a similar situation and feeling the same things. Suddenly getting successful - why? I have no idea.
I think many who start getting successful feel the same - like a fraud.
But really it's just about self actualising, making yourself visible in the world instead of hiding in the shadows.
You're not a better or a worse person than you were before - same person just coming out of the shadows a bit.
Wouldn't it be great if everyone did the same.... I think it would be!
It's ok to be proud of your achievements

 

[Mupotuf]

Every time my standing improves, the picture of the past gets even grimmer in my head.

This, to me, is a really profound statement.

like a fraud.
But really it's just about self actualising, making yourself visible in the world instead of hiding in the shadows.

Wow! Really great thread. Thank you.

 

[kari]

But really it's just about self actualising, making yourself visible in the world instead of hiding in the shadows.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. The more I make myself visible, the deeper into the shadows I'm forced to retreat -- I mean the real me. When I was a loser, at least I was an authentic loser. Now, as I "advance," I feel like I have to falsify myself more and more, because if these people knew......they'd have me physically removed from the premises.

 

[Avu]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

When I was a loser,

And sorry, I have to disagree with this ^^^^ Loser is a term that abusers use to gain a position of power and control over this victims. It is a lie.

Someone years ago gave me a job. A responsible job. A thinking job. I couldn't get it through my head that someone actually was going to pay me to think. Wow! Took me so long to get it through my head that someone actually thought my thoughts were worth paying for. You can do this. And if you decide it is not for you, you still aren't a loser.

 

[Moguro]

May I ask what these interests are, that you feel the working class are unlikely to take an interest in?

 

[Wafiz]

I'm
Interested to know that too. I haven't found class to be an indicator of interests myself.
your value system sounds pretty black and white - losers and winners. Maybe that's what's making you feel uncomfortable about having some success. Maybe it feels like you're betraying your former self.
You're still the same person. Success doesn't make you a better person - maybe a better off person.
I think it's your value system that's making you uncomfortable more than the success.

 

[Jujisal]

You're still the same person. Success doesn't make you a better person - maybe a better off person.
I think it's your value system that's making you uncomfortable more than the success.

Very much agreed.

I haven't found class to be an indicator of interests myself.

I'd have to disagree, here. While there are always individuals who differ, and individuals for whom the rules just never seem to apply to them; there are a lot of things which are either mostly restricted, or wholly restricted, to certain classes.

There are ways around those restrictions; like if you love and adore yacht racing / horse racing / similar and you're poor you can crew, train, or otherwise be employed by the wealthy families who are buying multimillion dollar horses and boats, and spending nearly as much traveling around the world in order to compete, or sometimes just make friends & exist in a world where the dues to a single club alone each year is more than you'll make in 10 years; While if you're wealthy, you can maybe make friends -often by financially backing, but sometimes just clicking personality wise, even though most people there came up on the same streets, and admission to those clubs is usually paid in blood- with the movers and shakers of underground & illegal sports; but being accepted by the majority of people in those 2 very different & very similar worlds? It's a rare thing. In no small part, because not everyone in either (or any) strata is accepted by the majority. There are always in-groups and out-groups, and degrees of status in any group of people. Boardroom or backrooms.

Americans, especially, like to pretend class doesn't exit. But it does. Whether you're coming up from nothing, "slumming it", or an undercover cop trying to finesse their way into a certain group? There are self appointed gatekeepers to keep out those they don't feel belong in their circle. For people with self-esteem issues? Whether you're born to the life, or trying to break into the life, those gatekeepers can shred you.

@Kari... No idea whether you're talking charity galas, high finance sports, political movers, the art crowd, board work, diplomatic circles, or any one of the dozens of worlds where most of the people there are bankrolled, pedigreed, & powerful... But that's the in, right there. It's only ever, most. There will always, always, always be people there who break the mold. You don't have to pretend to be someone you're not, because you actually are interested in whatever these areas are. That you now have the means to not have to get creative as hell in order to be there? Just got you past the first few rounds of gatekeepers without challenge. But no matter how high you rise? There will always be gatekeepers. Always be in groups and out groups. They are only as powerful as you let them be.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor Roosevelt

 

[kari]

Jujisal, thanks so much for this post, especially this:

Americans, especially, like to pretend class doesn't exit. But it does. Whether you're coming up from nothing, "slumming it", or an undercover cop trying to finesse their way into a certain group? There are self appointed gatekeepers to keep out those they don't feel belong in their circle. For people with self-esteem issues? Whether you're born to the life, or trying to break into the life, those gatekeepers can shred you.

To those who want to know what those interests are that are not shared by the working class, I'd say they run more towards the cultural than anything out there like boating. Literature, theater, etc. And please don't tell me "plenty" of working class people can speak with nuance and at length about those topics. I lived among them for years and years. They can't. I'm not necessarily blaming them. A lot of higher class people would probably be just as ignorant about those topics if it weren't required by their "gatekeepers" to know something about them.

There are ways around those restrictions; like if you love and adore yacht racing / horse racing / similar and you're poor you can crew, train, or otherwise be employed by the wealthy families who are buying multimillion dollar horses and boats, and spending nearly as much traveling around the world in order to compete, or sometimes just make friends & exist in a world where the dues to a single club alone each year is more than you'll make in 10 years

Obviously, there are ways to learn about them, or I wouldn't exist. But that poor person who gets a job crewing with the wealthy family isn't going to find a tribe with the same interests who will accept him. My point is even if you have those interests and can demonstrate it to the people in higher social circles, they still won't "let you in" if you're a waitress. Trust me.

And it's not just the gatekeepers for the beautiful people. I've had working class people snort at me like I was acting above what I was simply for having these interests.

That you now have the means to not have to get creative as hell in order to be there? Just got you past the first few rounds of gatekeepers without challenge.

I'd still have to be creative as hell about the first couple of decades of my life, my parents, who they are, what they did, etc. I can get past one all-important question, "What do you do?" without lying.

There will always be gatekeepers. Always be in groups and out groups. They are only as powerful as you let them be.

Er, in what sense? I don't remember ever letting them exclude me.

 

[Bona]

interests are that are not shared by the working class, I'd say they run more towards the cultural than anything out there like boating. Literature, theater, etc.

What does this have to do with a person's class? (I'm not offended or being snarky. I'm genuinely having trouble getting my head around this.)

 

[kari]

What does this have to do with a person's class? (I'm not offended or being snarky. I'm genuinely having trouble getting my head around this.)

Sorry, could you clarify what you're asking?

I mean a random sample of 100 waiters, waitresses, and busboys would be less knowledgeable about the cannon of Western literature than a random sample of 100 law students. That's what it has to do with social class.