Making A Friend... For Real... What's "safe"?

[DogwoodTree]

Between Asperger's and CPTSD and depression, I've never really had real friends. There have been people who would let me hang out with them, but I was always "performing" to try to look kinda sorta normal and try to fit in, so no one ever really knew me. Even with my DH, I've tried to play the role of a "functional, normal" wife as much as I knew how so I wouldn't burden him with my idiosyncrasies and peculiarities.

There are a couple of women over the past couple of years who have met with me regularly for lunch/dinner/coffee and conversation, but even with them, even with sharing my story with them, I still didn't feel safe enough to say the things I was really thinking. I always filtered my thoughts very carefully, very thoroughly before voicing them. Until I met this one woman...

Her personality...she's so easy to talk to. I told her early on about my Asperger's, and she's been great about carrying extra responsibility for helping the conversations move along, so then I can focus more on trying to be "real" with her and not get so distracted with "am I doing this right?"

She also has a pretty severe trauma history, and she's further along in her healing journey than I am. She has some training in helping people with trauma recovery (worked with a sexual assault agency or something), and even though that's not what she's doing now, she's one of the leaders for a 12-step group hosted by my new church.

We've talked for hours and hours on the phone. Last night, the conversation was 5 hours (our new record). We chat on Facebook nearly every day. I've never, ever, ever had a relationship with a friend who was this interested in getting to know me, like, the real me, underneath the masks. Ever.

I feel like I'm a little bit in shock, and a lot in awe. And then I'm scared, too. We've only crossed paths face-to-face once since we started talking on the phone, and that was only briefly. I'm not nearly as intelligible in person as I am when writing, and I'm afraid that she won't like me as much once she sees how much I stumble over my own words, and how much I mask my self around people.

And then I'm also worried about my judgment of how "safe" she really is. I've worked long and hard to understand what it means for someone to be safe. I've read books and articles and blogs, watched YouTube videos, and talked extensively with my T and others about what healthy boundaries and healthy relationships look like. I never experienced healthy relationships before, and I'm not totally sure I would recognize it.

About a year and a half ago, I reconnected with a former schoolteacher, someone who had spoken into my life at a critical time, and even though it wasn't really an ongoing relationship, his comment at that time meant a lot to me. But when I reconnected with him, it turns out he's a horny old man who almost immediately started grooming me and trying to establish an emotional-to-turn-physical affair. Once I figured out what was going on (took me weeeks), I cut off the conversation, but I felt so ashamed that I didn't see it coming. T finally pointed out what was happening as I started feeling a little uncomfortable with this guy's texts, and showed them to T.

Although this is a woman, so perhaps it's different, I still wonder how I can know that it's safe to be opening up to her like this. T went over a few points last week, like: she's not trying to "fix me", she's not grabbing for attention, she's not criticizing or judging, she's respecting my story without digging. It seems like she's doing everything right...more than right, even. She shares details of her story, vulnerably, as a testimony for her progress. And she points out how other people helped her along her way, and says she wants to be available to provide that kind of support to me. And she's really open with it, and adds qualifiers like, "But you can take your time, and think about it, and figure out what's right for you. I'll be here if you want to reach out to me, and if you don't, that's okay, too." She's not trying to be a therapist, but she recognizes that sometimes, just being able to share your story, in detail, with someone who is safe, can lighten the load enough for healing to occur.

So on one hand, I feel a sense of caution...to not go too fast, and to test the ice before walking out on it. But on the other hand...dang, it feels like I've spent my whole life looking for a friend like this, someone who could handle the real me, so I don't have to keep masking and pretending, so I can be as broken as I really am, and it's okay.

This is brand new territory for me. I really don't want to screw it up. But ironically, it seems like the relationship's ability to hold my mistakes is actually the test of its measure of safety. It's just so scary to let down the facade, and stand there like a shivering, wet dog with drooping ears and dripping, glory-less fur, wondering if the life in my bones is about to be sucked away down the drain along with the dirty bathwater. I'm fighting off shame attacks left and right, but there are other times where I find myself singing along with the radio again, or actually, truly smiling about something. There's such a sense of peace and release to be heard and understood and accepted. Is this too good to be true?

 

[Eagle3]

I've found there is at least one friend like this in a lifetime. I found a couple myself, but I still have a hard time trusting my own instincts due to past mistakes. There just finally came a time where I decided it would be best to trust the situation, knowing it would probably fail, but I'm being myself more and more now, and finding people who can handle it. The more I mask, the more distant the relationship, and if someone can't handle the real me, then they weren't meant to be in my life. I've had to let some people go, I've had to limit my time with others, but the few people I've found who I can truly be myself with are worth more to me than anything else. And while I still have a hard time feeling "connection", I do feel a sense of trust and ease with these people, even during the awkward moments. The hardest part is learning to enjoy their fellowship for as long as it lasts and not constantly worrying about when they're going to abandon me too. Its a tough process, but trusting someone who may actually be healthy and good for you is worth the risk. As long as you don't just blindly trust.

 

[scout86]

I wish I could figure out how to copy a line with this darn phone! What you said back there about the relationship being able to handle mistakes is right, I think. Your real friends, IMO, know the real you and like you anyway. Quirks and all. (I still find it hard to believe you're not quite likeable in person.)

Something to consider, this isn't a life and death deal. You don't have to get things perfectly right instantaneously. You might feel that way, but that's not accurate. With the creepy old teacher, for that matter, you recognized a potential problem before it got serious. You ran the information you had past a expert you trust. I do that with my T a lot. How else are you going to learn this stuff? To some extent, YOU define what "hurt" is. If you misjudged someone, on a lot of levels, you can view it as "interesting information". It doesn't have too be bad. Doesn't have to earn you a stream of self hatred. It can just be a mistake, which can just be information that you use to learn from and move on. Obviously, some things are actually dangerous. But EVERYTHING isn't. She sounds like a potential friend to me. Ask yourself "what have I got too lose?" and take the time to seriously answer the question. I'll bet you'll do fine.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@DogwoodTree I have had sooooo. Many friends throughout my life, but only 2 that have been true friendships. The kind that last through anything. The kind that you can tell them anything, and they in return pour their hearts out too. Through thick and thin, the good and the bad, the laughs and the hurt. They last.....

Take your time. Try not to wear the friendship out before it gets going. But also, be there for "each other" Don't let it become a one sided relationship. Make sure that her needs are met as are yours. Have fun, and remember to laugh a lot and not have just trauma talk. Let the friendship evolve into more than just a trauma talk, is what I'm trying to get across. I hope it last, because it's awesome to have a friend that gets you and you get her...... Enjoy!!!!!

 

[DogwoodTree]

while I still have a hard time feeling "connection", I do feel a sense of trust and ease with these people, even during the awkward moments.

This is really helpful. That awkwardness has been sooo hard for me to accept about myself. I hate it, I really do. But it's real, and I hate being fake. To find someone who isn't at all threatened by the awkwardness...and somehow, figure out how to see myself more like they do...that's one of the many tasks I'm tackling in all of this.

If you misjudged someone, on a lot of levels, you can view it as "interesting information". It doesn't have too be bad. Doesn't have to earn you a stream of self hatred. It can just be a mistake, which can just be information that you use to learn from and move on.

Relationships (both good and bad) challenge what I think of myself, and that can be super painful. But healthy. I'm trying to embrace this process. Sometimes it feels like I'm going to run out of people before I run out of mistakes, you know?

Try not to wear the friendship out before it gets going. But also, be there for "each other" Don't let it become a one sided relationship. Make sure that her needs are met as are yours.

This is one of my biggest fears. Whatever I do, I do intensely. It's the way my mind works. But T warned me even before this relationship came up that I should be careful not to push too hard once a possibility surfaced. And this past week, we talked about considering what is it that a middle-aged woman needs in a friendship? What is it she might be looking for, that I could help meet? I don't know the answer to that, but it's good to be asking the question. (Any thoughts?)

At the same time, I notice that she is initiating conversations at least as often as I do, and she does a bit more of the talking than I do, although I suspect she doesn't "need" this sharing as much as I do since she has a much more extensive support network. We met up today to talk while I waited for my kids at youth group, and that was her idea. It was a really good talk (although I didn't feel emotionally "present"...I'm afraid to overwhelm her with all of that). But I didn't work so hard to hide stimming or eye contact issues or anything like that. I'm still waiting for the emotions of that conversation to surface (delayed emotional processing).

Have fun, and remember to laugh a lot and not have just trauma talk. Let the friendship evolve into more than just a trauma talk, is what I'm trying to get across.

Yes, I'm trying to do some of this. She likes jumping around to all kinds of topics, and that helps keep the conversations really interesting. As I start to feel more confident that the deeper conversations will continue at some point in the future (that she won't try to avoid those topics), I find that I'm becoming more comfortable with the lighter topics, too. It's okay to come up for air, have a little fun, and then re-engage in deeper stuff again if it makes sense to do so. I've never talked with someone where those transitions were so easy and fluid.

 

[scout86]

Yesterday, probably for reasons I haven't figured out yet, my T brought up the subject of "how to make small talk". He suggested "maybe just say what you're thinking". We got off on "how people think" and I never actually told him that I thought that was a spectacularly bad idea. (Which is what I think.) I'm quite convinced that most people, most of the time, don't actually want to know what I'm thinking. They may think they do, right up until they actually hear it. But, the thing that separates the people I think of as "real friends" from acquaintances I like, is that my real friends are not only ok with what I'm thinking and how my brain works, they like it. And, I can safely say, "just tell me to shut up if I go too far", or what ever feedback I think I need from them, and they'll give it to me honestly, freely, and kindly.

So, I'm going to suggest that, if you're worried about asking too much, or overwhelming this person, or anything else where you're worried about over stepping some line you're not sure of, you might consider telling her that and asking her to honestly let you know. Boundaries are something we have to learn and we learn by making mistakes. A well intended mistake doesn't have too have bad consequences, even if your childhood experiences suggest differently.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@DogwoodTree I would just try to relax and not over think too much about the why, how, where, when, and what of the friendship. Don't try to analyze too much, don't try to think about what you should talk about, or not talk about. Just be you.

 

[Thizette]

That she share's bits of her story is an important indicator of friendship. She's not just listening, not just talking, she's letting you be vulnerable and being vulnerable as well. I think it's pretty common for people who are further along with healing to make themselves available and supportive of people who have had similar experiences. It sounds like her friendship is genuine, but it's ok to take your time in developing the friendship. A real friend will understand that. I'm happy for you, experiencing what sounds like a healthy relationship.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I'm quite convinced that most people, most of the time, don't actually want to know what I'm thinking. They may think they do, right up until they actually hear it. But, the thing that separates the people I think of as "real friends" from acquaintances I like, is that my real friends are not only ok with what I'm thinking and how my brain works, they like it. And, I can safely say, "just tell me to shut up if I go too far", or what ever feedback I think I need from them, and they'll give it to me honestly, freely, and kindly.

This is helpful. Most people don't actually want to know what I think, either. It's too intense, too deep, too extensive, too...whatever. I have to tone it down significantly to keep from scaring people off. To have found someone who can handle it...who can keep up with my thought patterns...and has her own contributions to make to the chaos...it's bizarre, in a good way.

you might consider telling her that and asking her to honestly let you know. Boundaries are something we have to learn and we learn by making mistakes.

Would this not scare someone off? ...to say up front, "I'm gonna make some serious boundary mistakes because I don't know any better, and I'd like you to point them out to me"?

Don't try to analyze too much

That's like telling a fish to try not to swim, lol...if I don't analyze, I make worse mistakes. And I don't want to do bad things in the relationship, like demand too much attention or pull back too much or overshare or ask too many questions or forget to ask her questions about things she's told me. All of my intentional behavior is produced by the underlying algorithms that I've developed over the years that tell me how to interact with people. I never learned how to just "be myself" with people.

But at the same time, you're right. I have to try if I'm ever going to figure it out. I just hate the mistakes that I make that I could have avoided had I monitored and analyzed my behavior more closely.

When I try to reduce the analysis work, it feels like I'm driving with blinders on, and I can't see the traffic around me or behind me, and I might swerve into other people's lanes, or get hit by someone swerving into my lane but I couldn't see them coming.

That she share's bits of her story is an important indicator of friendship.

So you don't think she's just playing a supportive role, with no intent to build a real friendship? I don't want to be someone's project.

My mom is really good at doing this with people...she has certain parts of her story that she shares just enough of in order to make people think she's being open and vulnerable with them. But it's the same parts of the story that she shares with everyone, and isn't any of the parts that she hasn't polished up and made to look good. It's all just to get the person to open up vulnerably with her, so she can "fix" them, and then they adore her. It's never an equal relationship...always "one-up/one-down."

 

[scout86]

There's a chance saying that might scare her off. But, if that's going to scare her off, dealing with someone who's trying to learn how to do this stuff will maybe be a problem too. I've been experimenting with this, believe it or not. What I'm finding is that the type of person I tend to like and enjoy being around is actually usually ok with me saying, "I'm not very good at this stuff, please tell me when I get annoying." Seems like that ability might be post being friends. (I'm still experimenting.)

 

[DogwoodTree]

What I'm finding is that the type of person I tend to like and enjoy being around is actually usually ok with me saying, "I'm not very good at this stuff, please tell me when I get annoying."

That's a good point. Although seems like there should be some middle ground available, too...something between "You scare me, go away" and "You're pretty awesome--I can handle your mistakes." And it seems like saying up front, "I'm not good at this", tips the scales strongly in one direction or the other, with no space left for the middle ground. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[scout86]

I don't know that you're missing anything. I'm thinking that maybe "I'm not good at this" comes off as sort of safe, approachable, non-threatening, humble? Something like that. And then they find out you actually mean it. LOL I've actually had that come up with my T. I missed some social interaction point and he stopped, looked at me and said, "You really DON'T get some of this, do you?" (We laughed,) I think, with a person who's actual friend material, you can admit you lack of skills.