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Counseling Approaches For PTSD
- Post starter blackdove
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anthony
Founder
Hi Dave,
Example: the best thing you can do for a rape victim is to first get their story, so you understand the facts to their specific issue. For example, if you are a 15 year old girl and you like a 25 year old guy... lets face it, the male should be saying NO... but some don't, instead they lead them on, they tell them things to manipulate them because they know the 15 year old girl is vulnerable and susceptable to believe what he says because she has this emotion which clouds her, plus; her brain has factually not developed whilst she is within a very susceptible time in her life with hormones running absolutely crazy and constantly changing her bodies chemical balance. This is why teenagers are so up and down, as their hormone levels attempt to stablize over their teen years. Now, as mentioned, their brain is not developed and will not be fully developed to make mature decisions until atleast 21 years of age, which is typically further for males brain to fully mature, like 24+. Figures and ages change slightly depending on which research you read, though they are all pretty close. The victims need to learn this... they need to know why they did things they don't understand.
The female as an adult now has PTSD because the male actually raped her, forced her and manipulated her into sex, then abused her, got worse, etc etc... Here is understanding. The female must learn why certain males do this, why her reactions where what they where, instead of get the hell out of there, etc. Females blame themselves sometimes because they feel they kept going back for more. Well... sometimes they are at fault and must accept it, sometimes they are not. What they need is honestly to obtain a fair and unbiased viewpoint of what they own vs. what pain and suffering they do not own and must learn to shift back towards the abuser.
No person asks to be raped, otherwise it would be consensual sex. A person must be made to understand the issues behind the scenes in order to find the answers they need to answer, why me? When you give a rape victim research of factual, scientific behavioural studies to rapist, pedophiles, sexual abusers, molestation, etc... dependent upon which they fit, when you educate them about the facts of brain development if age is appropriate, when you educate them about why they go back, often because they are abused over time and their self esteem is intentionally reduced to zero, or they feel the threat is real when the abuse threatens them or a love one with death if they fail to comply... etc etc.
I was speaking with one woman the other day, who fell into the threatened category on why she kept going back, still yet to understand and take it in, because the abuser threatened to kill her family members if she didn't do as he said. This was after a period of slowly abusing her though and lowering her self esteem to a level where she would be less likely to fight such a thing, and accept it and comply. These are the science facts behind the scenes which typically answer the questions for these people to help allow them to find their own understanding of their unique situation.
Therapists and physicians read this stuff, they know this stuff, but they don't give it to the sufferer, instead they try and solve their problem, instead of giving them the information to allow them to solve the problem for themselves. You cannot solve a person trauma, only they can do that. So instead of attempting to do that, you must instead give them as much knowledge about specifics surrounding their case and let them find the answers. Whether you read it to them because they won't, or they do read and research themselves to find more... that is what I mean.
Hope that helps.
You can talk about trauma until your face turns blue, but if you do not understand the facts behind a specific trauma, you can not come close to finding understand or resolution to the negative emotion your brain is causing. The most asked and problematic issue for say a rape victim is, "why me?" People can answer all sorts of things, none of which the person will ever take on board and actually find useful because they cannot just dismiss it, which is what the typical answer would be to that. A nice way to dismiss something that their brain is telling them otherwise.gunchief said:
Example: the best thing you can do for a rape victim is to first get their story, so you understand the facts to their specific issue. For example, if you are a 15 year old girl and you like a 25 year old guy... lets face it, the male should be saying NO... but some don't, instead they lead them on, they tell them things to manipulate them because they know the 15 year old girl is vulnerable and susceptable to believe what he says because she has this emotion which clouds her, plus; her brain has factually not developed whilst she is within a very susceptible time in her life with hormones running absolutely crazy and constantly changing her bodies chemical balance. This is why teenagers are so up and down, as their hormone levels attempt to stablize over their teen years. Now, as mentioned, their brain is not developed and will not be fully developed to make mature decisions until atleast 21 years of age, which is typically further for males brain to fully mature, like 24+. Figures and ages change slightly depending on which research you read, though they are all pretty close. The victims need to learn this... they need to know why they did things they don't understand.
The female as an adult now has PTSD because the male actually raped her, forced her and manipulated her into sex, then abused her, got worse, etc etc... Here is understanding. The female must learn why certain males do this, why her reactions where what they where, instead of get the hell out of there, etc. Females blame themselves sometimes because they feel they kept going back for more. Well... sometimes they are at fault and must accept it, sometimes they are not. What they need is honestly to obtain a fair and unbiased viewpoint of what they own vs. what pain and suffering they do not own and must learn to shift back towards the abuser.
No person asks to be raped, otherwise it would be consensual sex. A person must be made to understand the issues behind the scenes in order to find the answers they need to answer, why me? When you give a rape victim research of factual, scientific behavioural studies to rapist, pedophiles, sexual abusers, molestation, etc... dependent upon which they fit, when you educate them about the facts of brain development if age is appropriate, when you educate them about why they go back, often because they are abused over time and their self esteem is intentionally reduced to zero, or they feel the threat is real when the abuse threatens them or a love one with death if they fail to comply... etc etc.
I was speaking with one woman the other day, who fell into the threatened category on why she kept going back, still yet to understand and take it in, because the abuser threatened to kill her family members if she didn't do as he said. This was after a period of slowly abusing her though and lowering her self esteem to a level where she would be less likely to fight such a thing, and accept it and comply. These are the science facts behind the scenes which typically answer the questions for these people to help allow them to find their own understanding of their unique situation.
Therapists and physicians read this stuff, they know this stuff, but they don't give it to the sufferer, instead they try and solve their problem, instead of giving them the information to allow them to solve the problem for themselves. You cannot solve a person trauma, only they can do that. So instead of attempting to do that, you must instead give them as much knowledge about specifics surrounding their case and let them find the answers. Whether you read it to them because they won't, or they do read and research themselves to find more... that is what I mean.
Hope that helps.
Counselling Approaches for PTSD
Hi blackdove.
I went to so many doctors to find out what was wrong with me...unfortunately, I was still working and didn't realize I had ptsd. Still being exposed to the people and situations that caused the PTSD which makes it worse.
My doctor advised me that I had to get rid of the people/situations which caused the ptsd and that I couldn't rush my treatment. He has even stated to me that he will tell me when I'm ready to talk about what happened to me (I hate being told what to do).
Anyway, I trust him and I'm listening to him. I think if you're still in the midst of triggers and the things/people that set you off, you can't deal with the PTSD itself. Maybe that's what your counsellor is trying to tell you.
Take care.
Cate
Hi blackdove.
I went to so many doctors to find out what was wrong with me...unfortunately, I was still working and didn't realize I had ptsd. Still being exposed to the people and situations that caused the PTSD which makes it worse.
My doctor advised me that I had to get rid of the people/situations which caused the ptsd and that I couldn't rush my treatment. He has even stated to me that he will tell me when I'm ready to talk about what happened to me (I hate being told what to do).
Anyway, I trust him and I'm listening to him. I think if you're still in the midst of triggers and the things/people that set you off, you can't deal with the PTSD itself. Maybe that's what your counsellor is trying to tell you.
Take care.
Cate
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- #18
anthony
Founder
Military is a completely different approach again, because the majority of the acceptance is the soldiers. When you sign on that dotted line, knowingly or not, you just took 100% responsibility for everything you are possibly to be exposed too. Military training actually encompasses some of the symptoms off PTSD. You are trained to be hypervigilant, you are trained to go towards danger, not away from it, you are trained to be aggressive. These aspects often affect soldiers far more than someone who has been raped, because a soldier has had prior training and had these symptoms built in as such, because even being exposed to trauma. Yes, veteran administrations around the world who choose to discard soldiers are at fault for that, but exposure to the trauma itself is 100% the soldiers responsibility when they signed on that dotted line, knowingly or not, they own it all. That is a big issue with soldiers because you must accept that you own it, as you have nowhere else to put the majority of trauma. That is bigger picture... when you get down to specific incidents, ie. road side bomb, etc, the same rules apply.
You go looking for the specifics to understand the incident, however; with soldiers you own 100% being in that location and doing a job as a soldier first, regardless of Corp entry. Every soldier is a soldier first, job second. Considering soldiers see things and experience things people should never have too, it is actually surprising that if done right, a soldier will have more effective results at getting through trauma therapy than a civilian due to their training, ie. when you need to be aggressive to go head on into a trauma to find that resolution, they will do so more willingly than a civilian will. The answers are different for all, but the process is similar.
I know some therapists use this due to it being so effective, in that they actually try not to fix you as such, instead they educate you to find the answer yourself. The problem though is us... in that if civilian, a person pays a therapist to tell them everything, they go in with their eyes closed and expect someone to fix them, when in fact it cannot be done. When money is involved, things are very different. I respect what a therapist does though because it is a job at the end of the day and they as much as any other person should be paid. The problem is us... what we demand from them instead of letting them put people on the right path to begin with. The teaching is just all skewed nowadays... but you find the best therapy typically in veteran outfits around the world where the therapist is paid by the government, so they are paid regardless thus often can focus on educating a person to heal themselves. Then again.. it all comes down to individuality.
Bottom line... that one technique has far greater success. Problem is... there is no money in healing a person. People here who have sat in therapy for years... that is income to the therapist. Sorry... but it is. If you heal someone then the money stops. Vicious circle if you ask me.
You go looking for the specifics to understand the incident, however; with soldiers you own 100% being in that location and doing a job as a soldier first, regardless of Corp entry. Every soldier is a soldier first, job second. Considering soldiers see things and experience things people should never have too, it is actually surprising that if done right, a soldier will have more effective results at getting through trauma therapy than a civilian due to their training, ie. when you need to be aggressive to go head on into a trauma to find that resolution, they will do so more willingly than a civilian will. The answers are different for all, but the process is similar.
I know some therapists use this due to it being so effective, in that they actually try not to fix you as such, instead they educate you to find the answer yourself. The problem though is us... in that if civilian, a person pays a therapist to tell them everything, they go in with their eyes closed and expect someone to fix them, when in fact it cannot be done. When money is involved, things are very different. I respect what a therapist does though because it is a job at the end of the day and they as much as any other person should be paid. The problem is us... what we demand from them instead of letting them put people on the right path to begin with. The teaching is just all skewed nowadays... but you find the best therapy typically in veteran outfits around the world where the therapist is paid by the government, so they are paid regardless thus often can focus on educating a person to heal themselves. Then again.. it all comes down to individuality.
Bottom line... that one technique has far greater success. Problem is... there is no money in healing a person. People here who have sat in therapy for years... that is income to the therapist. Sorry... but it is. If you heal someone then the money stops. Vicious circle if you ask me.
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- #19
Anthony: I hear your point of view on therapists but I don't agree with you in the case of my therapist.
I had an issue with paying for therapy and issues with trust. My therapist emailed and said "you pay for my services but you get my love for free". Obviously it's a sort of guardianship-type love that she means and I think that's actually really good for me even if I try to push her away alot.
I was still skeptical about her and then I had a crisis. I was on a new drug that messed with my brain. It took me into a series of panic attacks that led me to drive about 8 hours across the country. Throughout my paranoia and confusion, she txted to support me the whole way until I finally snapped out of it and called her. She even said that she couldn't help me while it was happening and that I needed to call the crisis nurses. She has also put up with me in a suicide attempt where I was helicoptered to hospital last month.
So I think there are good therapists and the bottom line is that if she is being paid to help me, then in this country she is partly responsible for my actions. I'm not an easy client for her and am isolated which makes me a high risk to her. She has a life, a kid and a business and so if she and I miscommunicate or she makes a big mistake, then her reputation in on the line - that's alot of risk for $100 a week.
My brother has issues and said he was never able to find someone to help him. Lately he realised that he over-researched and over-thought everything. By the time he went to any counselor, he was already convinced that he knew more than them.
I'm a smart person but I know that some people know more than I do thank god because if I didn't realize that then I actually might never get help.
So, that's my view on things. Get a therapist with some real life experience and alot to lose if they screw up. Those are good signs.
I had an issue with paying for therapy and issues with trust. My therapist emailed and said "you pay for my services but you get my love for free". Obviously it's a sort of guardianship-type love that she means and I think that's actually really good for me even if I try to push her away alot.
I was still skeptical about her and then I had a crisis. I was on a new drug that messed with my brain. It took me into a series of panic attacks that led me to drive about 8 hours across the country. Throughout my paranoia and confusion, she txted to support me the whole way until I finally snapped out of it and called her. She even said that she couldn't help me while it was happening and that I needed to call the crisis nurses. She has also put up with me in a suicide attempt where I was helicoptered to hospital last month.
So I think there are good therapists and the bottom line is that if she is being paid to help me, then in this country she is partly responsible for my actions. I'm not an easy client for her and am isolated which makes me a high risk to her. She has a life, a kid and a business and so if she and I miscommunicate or she makes a big mistake, then her reputation in on the line - that's alot of risk for $100 a week.
My brother has issues and said he was never able to find someone to help him. Lately he realised that he over-researched and over-thought everything. By the time he went to any counselor, he was already convinced that he knew more than them.
I'm a smart person but I know that some people know more than I do thank god because if I didn't realize that then I actually might never get help.
So, that's my view on things. Get a therapist with some real life experience and alot to lose if they screw up. Those are good signs.
Irton Pike
Gold Member
This is a great thread. Very enlighteneing. I am a tad late arriving but i can give a quick overview. Just over two years ago I had had it! The next step was six feet under. I had stopped sleeping. I was soooooo hypervigilant! Like a cat on a hot tin roof. Iwas a mess. It was then that i went to the University Counceling service. The approach was to teach me relaxation techniques to try and get a grip on the anxiety and panic but also to allow me to talk about the trauma and to realise that this is a normal reaction to trauma. I kept going till i calmed down a bit then stopped going. then i would blow up again. The i would go back to the councelor.
I think i was living in denial of the problem. Although the option to deal with the car crash and the bullying i was getting at work, was there ,i didn't take it. I just calmed down a bit till i would blow up again. I struggled on for 18 months bullying myself into working for a nutter who would never be happy with my work. Seeking the approval of someone incapable of giving it. In Autumn last year I went rapidly downhill. Went to the quacks and was assessed by local psychiatric services. Went back to seeing the councelor who was still trying desperately to ghet my stress levels down so i could deal with the trauma. She was very worried! Eventually, I had a massiver blow up at work and came out for three months. That gave me the time to calm down away from my boss who was a massive trigger. Anyway, I finally started dealing with the trauma. I am traumatised. It isn't weak to admit it. I don't have to be ashamed, Its part of me, and as i learned it I can learn ways to deal with it. Life has improved a lot.
I can see why the therapists try to get us in some form of stability before pushing on to dealing with the trauma but it is VERY difiicult for us when we are so agitated!
The way out is about learning a lot of stuff. It takes a long time to come down and it is very difficult for the therapist to get to grips with at one hour a week or whatever.
I think i was living in denial of the problem. Although the option to deal with the car crash and the bullying i was getting at work, was there ,i didn't take it. I just calmed down a bit till i would blow up again. I struggled on for 18 months bullying myself into working for a nutter who would never be happy with my work. Seeking the approval of someone incapable of giving it. In Autumn last year I went rapidly downhill. Went to the quacks and was assessed by local psychiatric services. Went back to seeing the councelor who was still trying desperately to ghet my stress levels down so i could deal with the trauma. She was very worried! Eventually, I had a massiver blow up at work and came out for three months. That gave me the time to calm down away from my boss who was a massive trigger. Anyway, I finally started dealing with the trauma. I am traumatised. It isn't weak to admit it. I don't have to be ashamed, Its part of me, and as i learned it I can learn ways to deal with it. Life has improved a lot.
I can see why the therapists try to get us in some form of stability before pushing on to dealing with the trauma but it is VERY difiicult for us when we are so agitated!
The way out is about learning a lot of stuff. It takes a long time to come down and it is very difficult for the therapist to get to grips with at one hour a week or whatever.
Irton Pike
Gold Member
I would also say that what Anthony has said is bang on the money. The dealing with trauma is all about understanding that it has happened. How it happened. What you did that got you to that point. What other people did that got you to that point.
And then understanding that traumatic events have a powerful affect on the functioning of the brain. They change the way the brain operates. I like the phrase "psychiatric injury". If like me you were having a hard time and people around you chose to heap more pain on you then you might find that secondary wounding as bad as the original trauma. I have found it very useful to try and understand why people would stick the boot into people with PTSD. As I have learnt more about the whys and wherefores of peoples behaviour I have been able to rationalise the events of my life and thus begin to gain a bit more control over my own mood and emotions and therefore the course of my life. It is slow. It is often painful. I often take a step back or wander off the path. Shit happens. Dealing with it.
Great thread.
And then understanding that traumatic events have a powerful affect on the functioning of the brain. They change the way the brain operates. I like the phrase "psychiatric injury". If like me you were having a hard time and people around you chose to heap more pain on you then you might find that secondary wounding as bad as the original trauma. I have found it very useful to try and understand why people would stick the boot into people with PTSD. As I have learnt more about the whys and wherefores of peoples behaviour I have been able to rationalise the events of my life and thus begin to gain a bit more control over my own mood and emotions and therefore the course of my life. It is slow. It is often painful. I often take a step back or wander off the path. Shit happens. Dealing with it.
Great thread.
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- #22
anthony
Founder
I didn't say "all" therapists, just like there are some seriously questionable shrinks within the world, then those who are ok, then those that excel at what they do with the clients needs first, not their own agenda. There are always great therapists, clinicians, physicians to be found... the only problem is that it tends to be on the side currently that more silly one's exist that the good quality one's that obtain the results.
Honestly, I do not know what some have such limited thinking. My thinking... if you heal a persons trauma, you really get them back on track to atleast sleep at night and have a serious symptom downscale, then whilst you no longer need to see them, you won't have to worry as they will recommend people purely because they actually helped them, thus you tend to find the really good one's are extremely hard to get in to see (conditions can apply to that one though.)
Freddy_hiding_less
Bronze Member
I believe some therapist are not up to really face the responses, emotions and life stories clients are bringing so they are losing their professional composure, one way out then is to play it "overly safe". /Freddy
Anthony thanks for the explanation on military PTSD. I never really thought about the responsibility side of it nor the training itself as a factor.
If I understand what you are saying is this, try to find a VA centered therapist and support groups, etc. The therapist I see I do not for a moment think that he can relate to anything I say to him.
The first therapist I saw sent me to him and I got more out of him in one hour than i have from him in 6 hours.
Thank you for the input.
Dave
If I understand what you are saying is this, try to find a VA centered therapist and support groups, etc. The therapist I see I do not for a moment think that he can relate to anything I say to him.
The first therapist I saw sent me to him and I got more out of him in one hour than i have from him in 6 hours.
Thank you for the input.
Dave
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