Agree with @desiderata310 on this one. I went to therapy with a very particular issue and planned to be there for a couple of months dealing with it. The "thing" had also unleashed lots of old trauma which I'm still working in. It took me 7 months to even say there had been previous trauma, I mentioned it and moved on. It was another 6 months before I spoke about it again. 3.5 years into therapy and we've worked very hard together but sometimes I still wonder all of the things you've asked - the difference being now I'll go back and talk to my T about them instead of sitting there fretting.
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Therapy flunkie
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Thank you to those who have responded. I read your stories and think the checks belong in your boxes; however, I look at mine and wonder if they do. My therapist has not wavered on his thoughts about it. Despite the lack of forthcoming information, he still has no doubt in his mind. The mere mention of cPTSD sends me back into my shell.
It has been a year now. It isn't a simple matter of me withholding information from him, but also personal doubts that events really deserve the "check mark" in that box.
Yep, I get that too - I've always doubted that I've been that traumatised. When my doctor first mentioned ptsd my response to him was that I hadn't experienced trauma. A key part of my therapy - and the hardest part - has been accepting that by any measure what happened to me was both abusive and traumatic. It's part of the process to distance yourself from the awfulness of what happened to you, not to feel the emotions attached to that.
Different things work for different people - one of the things that helped me was looking at children the age I was when I experienced X, and ask myself whether I would be ok with that child experiencing that. If not, what made it different for me - not allowed to say "it just is" but to name the things that I feel meant my experience was ok when it wouldn't be for another child. I then picked these apart in therapy for ages, over and over again - my T and I have a very robust relationship and would strongly challenge each other but eventually, little bit by little bit, I was able to see it for what it was, for me. That might be the work for you for a while but what you describe sounds like a normal phase of things to me.
Different things work for different people - one of the things that helped me was looking at children the age I was when I experienced X, and ask myself whether I would be ok with that child experiencing that. If not, what made it different for me - not allowed to say "it just is" but to name the things that I feel meant my experience was ok when it wouldn't be for another child. I then picked these apart in therapy for ages, over and over again - my T and I have a very robust relationship and would strongly challenge each other but eventually, little bit by little bit, I was able to see it for what it was, for me. That might be the work for you for a while but what you describe sounds like a normal phase of things to me.
Self judgement and condemnation have no place in therapy. You are in therapy because there are things that bother YOU. A therapist is a tool to help you work through those issues. I can tell you that therapists (I am sure there are exceptions to this) don't pass judgement or rate the varying degree of your trauma. They just want to help you find the tools to help you find peace.
Best wishes...
Best wishes...
barefoot
Diamond Member
A thousand times "YES!" to pretty much everything you said in your OP.
I'm three years in to therapy and my defences/resistance have been strong throughout, which has meant lots of frustration and self-criticism on my part.
There have been signs of some significant shifts fairly recently but the defences still show up massively at times - minimisation, denial, avoidance, dissociation etc - and it often feels like for every small step forward there are a few giant leaps backwards.
I'm not sure whether it's true that you're not engaging. For me, "engaging" isn't just being able to easily form and clearly articulate your thoughts and feelings and answer T's questions clearly, fully and accurately.
On too many occasions to count I have argued to my therapist that nothing was "that bad" and that she's being over-dramatic and that I can't possibly have PTSD because nothing traumatic has ever happened to me. I have shut down, I have been unable to speak (even though at times I really wanted to and had the words - I just couldn't get them out), I have stared at the wall, I have felt excruciatingly awkward and wanted to peel my skin off and step out of my body, I have stared at her perplexed as her words just feel jumbled in my head and I can't quite shift the fog to work out what she's talking about because my head is just drifting or full of white noise...
On none of those occasions were T and I having a fluid, articulate conversation about my issues, thoughts or feelings. But a whole lot of stuff was going on for me, even when I was just sitting in silence staring at the same spot on the door frame for 15 mins as a rising panic, which I didn't understand, seemed to take over my body.
So, I was engaging on some level. Just not in a way that I thought felt very productive or that felt like was the "right" kind of engagement.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're failing at therapy. Therapy is hard. And progress isn't necessarily linear. And it's a very individual process.
We're showing up. We're doing our best. We're finding our way through...
I'm three years in to therapy and my defences/resistance have been strong throughout, which has meant lots of frustration and self-criticism on my part.
There have been signs of some significant shifts fairly recently but the defences still show up massively at times - minimisation, denial, avoidance, dissociation etc - and it often feels like for every small step forward there are a few giant leaps backwards.
I'm not sure whether it's true that you're not engaging. For me, "engaging" isn't just being able to easily form and clearly articulate your thoughts and feelings and answer T's questions clearly, fully and accurately.
On too many occasions to count I have argued to my therapist that nothing was "that bad" and that she's being over-dramatic and that I can't possibly have PTSD because nothing traumatic has ever happened to me. I have shut down, I have been unable to speak (even though at times I really wanted to and had the words - I just couldn't get them out), I have stared at the wall, I have felt excruciatingly awkward and wanted to peel my skin off and step out of my body, I have stared at her perplexed as her words just feel jumbled in my head and I can't quite shift the fog to work out what she's talking about because my head is just drifting or full of white noise...
On none of those occasions were T and I having a fluid, articulate conversation about my issues, thoughts or feelings. But a whole lot of stuff was going on for me, even when I was just sitting in silence staring at the same spot on the door frame for 15 mins as a rising panic, which I didn't understand, seemed to take over my body.
So, I was engaging on some level. Just not in a way that I thought felt very productive or that felt like was the "right" kind of engagement.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're failing at therapy. Therapy is hard. And progress isn't necessarily linear. And it's a very individual process.
We're showing up. We're doing our best. We're finding our way through...
barefoot
Diamond Member
Just to add - this is one of the things that has most helped me too in terms of denial/arguing that nothing had been "that bad". Although I have been going to therapy for three years I am only now in the very early stages of really starting to engage with trauma and starting to accept that someone did something wrong and that perhaps it was "bad enough".
I work with young people sometimes and had a moment a few months ago where one of the kids in the group said something and I was totally struck by how young they were. They were 15, which is older than I was. And it was actually a big shock - and I immediately felt very emotional - to stand there and look at her and think "you're a child."
For me, it just helped me to realise that I was always looking at my trauma from an adult's perspective (and a pretty harsh, skewed one at that) rather than a child's. That has enabled me to have a shift in my thinking about my experiences.
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I know every mark on my T shoes. I know the spot in the corner on the baseboard quite well. I know the details of the legs of his desk (you know, the little brass ones that look like feet? - they remind me of my grandmother's house). I'm intimately familiar with the rising panic that I don't understand and the loss of words while my mind races, unable to settle long enough to formulate a coherent thought. What's the point?
I haven't argued, as there is nothing concrete for him to say "yes, you were traumatzed" or "no, you were not" to. He doesnt even have this to go on, because I have not gotten that far. Again, I feel like if therapy were a class, I would be receiving a failing grade.
He picks up on things, but....no stories thus far.
Part of my problem is that it seems like he doesn't care.
I am rambling at this point and should probably stop so I can avoid further embarassment. Thank you for all of the responses.
I haven't argued, as there is nothing concrete for him to say "yes, you were traumatzed" or "no, you were not" to. He doesnt even have this to go on, because I have not gotten that far. Again, I feel like if therapy were a class, I would be receiving a failing grade.
He picks up on things, but....no stories thus far.
Part of my problem is that it seems like he doesn't care.
I am rambling at this point and should probably stop so I can avoid further embarassment. Thank you for all of the responses.
desiderata310
VIP Member
Hey anon. You kinda seemed to want this post to close but I'm going to put one more thing out there and if you want to leave it be after this, you can. k? But I want you to hear me out.
I've had this very conversation with another member very recently about how their trauma wasn't 'bad enough' or there wasn't one THING that seemed to fit. (at least in her mind) She too talked about how we all seemed to match the 'criteria' and she didn't.
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told this other member.
My user name is Desiderata. I chose the name because it is a serenity poem. Now, usually serenity poems don't sit with me nor poems in general but THIS one did. It's a great poem. Max Ehrmann if you want to look it up some time.
There's a line in it that fits this situation:
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
Usually, people would look at that and talk about 'where someone is in the world in as far as what they have achieved. It works here too. It doesn't MATTER that Suzetig or I or someone else had it worse. It's not what happened, it's what's happening NOW- what it's done to your perception of the world that has pushed you to the place you are.
My therapist told me recently that EVERYONE that walks in that door of his practice does so because they have a core belief that is just wrong and f*cking up their world and how they deal with it
So there is SOMETHING that happened or was said or was imposed on you that made you believe something about yourself that isn't serving you now.
:bored::bag:
"But but Desi"
yeah yeah. I can already hear you protesting and trying to argue.
shhh. quiet.
It can be something as "simple" as the fact that you were neglected. Or that you were in a situation where things were not predictable. I dunno. But little things. Things that seem like (to our now adult eyes) shouldn't be so bad were actually huge deals.
I also gave the example of my daughter and something that happened to prove a point:
There was an event that happened where I was careless, I hurt her unintentionally and didn't know it at the time. When she complained, I kinda laughed it off trying to get her to do the same.
To her, it was "mom's trying to burn the living shit out of me and laughed at my pain"
It took her YEARS, YEARS to get around to telling me what happened that day from her point of view. It colored her world and her feelings about me.
One other thing. Therapists are told to be neutral. It can be annoying as f*ck for some people. Mine tries but I've said things in therapy and while I've seen him keep that neutral wall up there have been a few times I've heard him gasp. Somehow that hurt more. So try to remember that before you say 'oh my therapist doesn't think this is anything either. They are doing that because they are TRAINED to do it and it's honestly better for you in the long run. IF you NEED to see emotion from him TELL him that or find a therapist that is more reflective.
So I hope this helps. Getting through the first few months of therapy are among the most difficult and awkward things I've done to date. There are days I still feel that way.
I've had this very conversation with another member very recently about how their trauma wasn't 'bad enough' or there wasn't one THING that seemed to fit. (at least in her mind) She too talked about how we all seemed to match the 'criteria' and she didn't.
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told this other member.
My user name is Desiderata. I chose the name because it is a serenity poem. Now, usually serenity poems don't sit with me nor poems in general but THIS one did. It's a great poem. Max Ehrmann if you want to look it up some time.
There's a line in it that fits this situation:
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
Usually, people would look at that and talk about 'where someone is in the world in as far as what they have achieved. It works here too. It doesn't MATTER that Suzetig or I or someone else had it worse. It's not what happened, it's what's happening NOW- what it's done to your perception of the world that has pushed you to the place you are.
My therapist told me recently that EVERYONE that walks in that door of his practice does so because they have a core belief that is just wrong and f*cking up their world and how they deal with it
So there is SOMETHING that happened or was said or was imposed on you that made you believe something about yourself that isn't serving you now.
:bored::bag:
"But but Desi"
yeah yeah. I can already hear you protesting and trying to argue.
shhh. quiet.
It can be something as "simple" as the fact that you were neglected. Or that you were in a situation where things were not predictable. I dunno. But little things. Things that seem like (to our now adult eyes) shouldn't be so bad were actually huge deals.
I also gave the example of my daughter and something that happened to prove a point:
There was an event that happened where I was careless, I hurt her unintentionally and didn't know it at the time. When she complained, I kinda laughed it off trying to get her to do the same.
To her, it was "mom's trying to burn the living shit out of me and laughed at my pain"
It took her YEARS, YEARS to get around to telling me what happened that day from her point of view. It colored her world and her feelings about me.
One other thing. Therapists are told to be neutral. It can be annoying as f*ck for some people. Mine tries but I've said things in therapy and while I've seen him keep that neutral wall up there have been a few times I've heard him gasp. Somehow that hurt more. So try to remember that before you say 'oh my therapist doesn't think this is anything either. They are doing that because they are TRAINED to do it and it's honestly better for you in the long run. IF you NEED to see emotion from him TELL him that or find a therapist that is more reflective.
So I hope this helps. Getting through the first few months of therapy are among the most difficult and awkward things I've done to date. There are days I still feel that way.
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- #21
I didnt necessairly want the thread to close. I was just concerned that my writing was becoming erratic and all over the place.
I did manage to have a conversation with my therapist about his apparent lack of concern for his patients. He has a second business. This week, I told him that he seemed more passionate about the other one. He denied that was the case. I asked if he cares at all about his patients. I suppose the question was harsh. He said he cares deeply about his patients, but that it is not his job to take their suffering outside of session. He said that it took him about two years to learn that skill. His job is not to feel their hurt, but to facilitate progress. He said if a patient wants somebody to carry their burdens and think about them during the week, that is the job of a support group.
It seemed harsh, although I do see his point. I think i do need somebody who acts like they give a damn though. It is so hard to open up to a robot.
Oh god I'd find that harsh - your therapist needs to be able to put their work down at the end of the day and not carry their clients pain into their day to day life. I have, however needed to know my therapist gives a damn about me, in fact at points being with her knowing she felt the pain of my situation allowed me to go there too. I couldn't do the work I needed to do with someone who wasn't emotionally engaged with me.
I think good, long term therapy should change both the client and the therapist to some degree. My therapist is open about being impacted by her work with me - not in an unable to look after herself way but in the sense that you can't stay close to someone going through what I've been through with her and it not affect you. It's the relationship that heals, always the relationship first. In your shoes I'd find a new one.
I think good, long term therapy should change both the client and the therapist to some degree. My therapist is open about being impacted by her work with me - not in an unable to look after herself way but in the sense that you can't stay close to someone going through what I've been through with her and it not affect you. It's the relationship that heals, always the relationship first. In your shoes I'd find a new one.
desiderata310
VIP Member
yyyeeeeaaah... There are other therapist. Ones that think about you longer than the hour you are in session. Mine doesn't obsess about me (that would be scary in the other direction) but on more than one occasion he's said, ' so I read this and thought about you' or "I was thinking about something you said the other day and it made me think of " etc.
In other words, he does think about his clients when he's not WITH them and he actually does give a f*ck.
They exist. go find one.
UnicornSightings
Platinum Member
I asked my therapist about that. If she has a hard time outside of the office, doing what she does. She said in the beginning it was bad. She had a supervisor that helped her though because she said "no one wants a therapist that cries about them in the shower. That isn't good for everyone". How can they do that? How can they separate themselves from the pain you are going through? How can they be so cold? That is SELF-CARE! They HAVE to do that to do their jobs well. It doesn't mean they don't think of you outside of session or care, they just don't let it rule their lives. Like right now. I'm feeling for you. I so get it and my heart goes out to you. I want you to feel better and do well and while my focus right now is on you, once I post this it will be on the cat I'm petsitting and the life I'm living. We give what we can. It doesn't mean we are robots or don't care. If your T wept for you outside of session he would not last long in his profession. And you want a therapist that models behavior that is important to learn as well.
Also, I too think my "trauma" is minimal. All that happened to me is I wasn't loved and had to be the emotional rock for my mom and grow up before I got to be a child. Surely emotional neglect is nothing compared to people that were tortured or abused!!!! But that's not the case. To me, to the isolation it caused, to how I have handled things, it is a VERY big deal. All that matters is if it affected YOU. Don't compare. Your pain is real and valid.
Also, I too think my "trauma" is minimal. All that happened to me is I wasn't loved and had to be the emotional rock for my mom and grow up before I got to be a child. Surely emotional neglect is nothing compared to people that were tortured or abused!!!! But that's not the case. To me, to the isolation it caused, to how I have handled things, it is a VERY big deal. All that matters is if it affected YOU. Don't compare. Your pain is real and valid.
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